AoAGeneral1 wrote: ↑I would have to disagree. If you leave infantry in the tiberium then its the players fault for doing so. As for the Chems they have a RNG base system to create a random visceroid but its not on either players side. In several scenarios the visceroid turns on the chems instead which can help the opponent player out.
While pre-spawned visceroids can be changed around to prevent more wandering issues or perhaps remain stationary, I do think its in a good position if they die in tiberium or by chems.
I would have to agree with you. Maybe a "NoWorms"-like option for TD for the pre-spawned viceroids to be ignored on map-load.
And as for the RNG-generated ones, I agree, 'tis the player's fault. IMO also one of the things that make TD unique. Viceroids should stay a factor in here, and hopefully TS as well.
I am not very keen on the pre-placed, pre-spawned ones, as their wandering around from the get-go does actually influx another factor of randomness into the game. Albeit the generated ones have always been canon [at least in TS]
Last edited by jaZz_KCS on Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Is that possible? Cause the visceroids are considered a unit in the map editor. I figured the map would need to be edited to remove the visceroids.
Originally when they didn't move around they added a nice element to the game which I agree with. You want this oil field? Awesome kill the visceroids first type of strategy. I loved it.
Currently doesn't work so well at the moment though lol
Right, removing them from spawning entirely would break chems because they don't create extra targets to shoot at. They can just mow down everything in their way without worrying about visceroids stalling them in their a-move. You're also right in that it's the player's fault for leaving infantry in tiberium, but my issue is why they can potentially get punished very hard by losing more of one's army to visceroids when they already lost the infantry they neglected. This includes nearby civilians who die to tiberium growth and giving you a present in the process. It also forces an eco build to drop their GT/Turret to kill viscerioids instead of saving it for enemy rushes if an infantry scout dies in their tiberium field.
I can understand the argument for removing them completely as they are uncompetitive in nature however they are a good part of the game.
I spoke to pchote/sleipnir and I think I will go through the map pool and edit the maps with visceroids. I will try to get to guard the tib field otherwise ill just remove them. They are nice but not to deal with 30 seconds in.
Regarding chem troopers. I wouldn't be surprised if the chem trooper uses the same attack as a visceroid and the chance for a visceroid to spawn is higher, otherwise this may be some bug, it is almost consistent for 1 visc to make 2 others off a cell full of infantry. Check replay
The spawn probable number I will mess with. More then likely I will cut the number in half to reduce the amount of visce that spawn but they aren't going to be removed from them completely. Been looking through a few replays for comparisons.
AoAGeneral1 wrote: ↑The spawn probable number I will mess with. More then likely I will cut the number in half to reduce the amount of visce that spawn
Works for me. That should solve the issues for the most part hopefully.
As for the playtest, I've been playing around with the buggy/humvees, and I think the structure nerf along with the heavy nerf is a tad too harsh. Against GDI opponents in particular, they're going to have very limited use. I'll keep poking at it.
For the hummers/buggies damage vs those armors its on par with the minigunners actually. Difference being they shoot faster and do slightly less damage vs none armor types.
The reason for this is to promote bike play with buggies rather then just buggies only. Hummers for the same reason to mix them with APCs or infantry combos rather then a single unit type.
I feel that either light tanks are too weak or mediums are too strong. Regardless, when these two engage directly in micro, mediums will always win cost-effectively. Lights just die way too easily and nearly cost the same as a medium. The E3 buff also plays a pretty big role in the ltank's poor survivability.
At the moment from all the 1v1s I've seen in a GDIvNod, GDI wins almost 80% of the time when its mid-late game, mainly because of AGTs/MRLS being extremely strong at sealing off chokepoints on the defensive end and mediums/inf spam simply overpowering anything Nod has to offer on the offensive end. The only 20% that I've seen was because of lucky bike/ltank plays on GDI forgetting to watch their base flanks and losing the eco war because of it.
The late game is another issue, mainly because of (imo) how strong the ion cannon is compared to the Nuke. Ions are capable of destroying the bulk of your opponent's army instantly (every 3 minutes!) while nukes for the most part feels like...cool I just bombed a building, woohoo! Of course when used effectively just one can potentially turn the tables, but a smart GDI player would vacate their units standing around in their base and move the mcv to minimize damage. Wasting nukes is far more common than wasting ions, and the time difference between the superweapons means wasting nukes is far more detrimental to a Nod player late game.
At the moment, I suggest knocking the ltank price down to 650 or a medium nerf would work too, with a price bump to 850. The Ion Cannon and Airstrike I feel should have a 30 second timer increase.
At the current moment I will say that I need to see replays of the light tank vs Medium tank issues.
Right now Anjew can literally do circles around with the light tanks and they are very mobile which is their strong suit. I suggest playing against him a few times. Otherwise if you can send a few replays for me to look at. (Reason being is so I can see if the player is doing a mistake or it is infact the units itself).
The ion vs nuke debate. This one has come up on and off at times.
The ion im actually willing to test it on a 4 min timer leaving the A10 as is. Mainly because the ion is meant for an army killer and it can be pretty annoying with a mass army of units and five mammoths die to a shot.
For the nuke itself it is actually very strong. Striking units or MCVs won't do anything that is true. But if you strike a temple of nod that is a MAJOR game changer. As well as an adv com center too. You can even use it to strike weapon factories to change the game as well.
But currently there are some small flaws I would like to see done in the nuke. I would like to test out an AoE damage buff so that it can hit multiple structures in its radius. (Not to the point of an A bomb from RA). Just something to increase the damage. This as mentioned needs testing though because it might require a time extension to compensate for its damage.
Right now as far as late tech game goes in TD is about getting to that tech. Not so much as "I need the ion or nuke" type of game. But more so that "I need mammoths/commandos or stealth tanks/chems." The nuke/ion is just a bonus.
AoAGeneral1 wrote: ↑
Right now as far as late tech game goes in TD is about getting to that tech. Not so much as "I need the ion or nuke" type of game. But more so that "I need mammoths/commandos or stealth tanks/chems." The nuke/ion is just a bonus.
When i play GDI the only reason I want the tech is for the ion. The usual downside to teching is that your army wont be as large as the enemies however if you have an ion then you can kill an advcomms worth of units and end up ahead. This is especially effective against Nod since they have no counter.
Depending on how the game goes mammoths can be an investment if the player builds right. Most of the time players stop production and go into a mammoth pure build rather then doing a factory of mediums and a factory of mammoths. This way you can keep your count up as the mammoths can stomp over a lot of the units Nod/GDI have. (Unless Nod techs).
The Ion idea of increasing the duration time was a thought in the past but there was some disagreements about in the needs of "Ion preventing mass units" Which I didn't agree with. But a bit more players are coming onboard so its something to mess around with again now.
AoAGeneral1 wrote: ↑
Otherwise if you can send a few replays for me to look at. (Reason being is so I can see if the player is doing a mistake or it is infact the units itself).
And when Anjew was GDI and the other player was Nod, it was the same story with GDI winning through brute force. Don't think these "replays" really show much in terms of seeing the details on what both players are doing, but the end results for them were consistent. Anjew should have the all the replays though, if they still exist
Anjew has spoken himself that he is not a good frontal engager. Which suits his playstyle well as nod. Anjew is a master at doing sneak attacks such as chinook drops and two way pronged attacks.
In the first video his major mistake was when he sent the light tanks in to attack his infantry died to the south without support of the tanks. If they were both sent in together they would kill his army easily and run the base over. Because of this however Anjew lost his forces.
Video #2:
Bikes were not used. Light tank and bike mixed armies will destroy medium tanks in a heart beat. For the infantry that boxes would send use minigunners and if you are rich use flame infantry with a minigunner mix.
During the beginning of the play as well he shouldn't have lost his bikes and kept them alive as much as possible. Picking off units only would have harmed him a lot more in example while accumulating more bikes or light tanks.
The other thing is during the 11 min phase of the game when AGTs started popping up was STUKA had a force. He should have boxed the GDI player in instead and expanded grabbing stealth tank tech to take out the AGT towers and tanks as well. Light tank and bike army mixes will also kill AGTs rather easily.
Video #3:
Couldn't see Anjews base. If I was to guess he was at a constant rate of money issue due to lack of expansion. In this video though it doesn't really show a problem with the medium tanks until later in the game but mainly just a need of focus vsing his infantry. Which was attempted but got A10 a few times over.
Once more however, a bike/buggy play works wonders on this map and if you have the economy a bike/buggy/light tank build can work too. If you manage to hold an expansion teching to stealth tanks would help again as well.
Bikes would be a proper choice in these situations, but GDI would bring out MLRS to counter. Mistakes were made on both sides often. But since these mostly focus on straight up tank spam, GDI seems to have a huge advantage because of the AGT and ltank/mtank price/performance differences. Lights just have a lot of trouble staying alive; whatever counters mediums works far better against lights, and they usually end up dying without making up for what they're worth.
As for the surprise attacks, I've seen anjew as GDI pulling off the same stunts with mediums and doing far more damage for cost. Just 3 mediums sneaking in can deal some serious damage compared to 3 lights (only 300 credit difference).
