TD balance thread

[Major Kusanagi Motoko]

Hello TD community, as you might have noticed,
i dont have the opportunity to play TD as much as i could back in the 2014,-15,-16', nevertheless i always agreed among most players during this period that the AGT is a major balance issue in TD (unfortunately other paths have been chosen as a workaround back then, anyways

working on the agts would be something i would fully support and would be interested in testing those ideas when i can gather time for that.

My guess ahead on this idea would be that a skilled player <edit: in competitive 1v1 palys/edit> will still be able to select its agt and focus fire the tanks while in team games mass agt spam wont secure the flanks <edit: or cement the center/edit> too easily anymore, making more room for more advanced tactical position and importance of vector of attack /defense plays, ergo more interesting games

it might also give more room in the complex field of balance to bring back the unique TD multi queue dynamic many of us are still missing : an earlier 2nd mcv <3

[Beans]

it might also give more room in the complex field of balance to bring back the unique TD multi queue dynamic many of us are still missing : an earlier 2nd mcv <3

+1

[AoAGeneral1]

New Years hell is over so will be seeing about any AGT ideas. Ive still kept the numbers on it but just making double sure since AGT debates and comments has existed for some time.

[Beans]

I'm also for a 10% reduction in mammoth hp back to how it was.

[AoAGeneral1]

https://resource.openra.net/maps/31150/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/31155/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/31154/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/31153/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/31152/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/31156/

AGT ideas. The main goal focus for now is working on the damage AGTs do in large numbers and try to minimize them down. Reducing their over all area of effect damage helps create a more single target focus rather then doing to much splash damage and wiping armies out.

The increase to infantry damage is to help compensate for their lack of splash damage vs infantry armies. One map out for the moment for testing.

AGT spread damage down to 283 instead of 683

AGT infantry damage up to 58 instead of 48

EDIT: https://resource.openra.net/maps/31170/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/31185/

[Beans]

No complaints so far

[AoAGeneral1]

Additional testing ideas on these maps. Will post a link to the original discussions made in this forum. This is mainly just an experiment. Nothing is final yet (Except for the AGT changes as of right now.)

Changed AGT spread damage from 683 to 283.
Changed AGT infantry damage from 48 to 58.
Changed Silo power to from -10 to 0.
Changed Commando cost from 2000 to 1300.
Changed Nod Cargo plane speed. (It looks dumb but its for testing.)
Changed Stealth Tank damage from 6000 to 7000.
Changed Service Depot fix rate from 15 to 10.

Maps here: (OUDATED links removed)

Link to the other discussion topic:

https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/issues/16624


EDIT: Apparently I forgot to add in Stealth Tank HP. Will do an update later on to the maps. @_@ Sorry

[Beans]

AGT spread change is sort of Ok, but now the Obelisk is in heavy use, people have harnessed its power! Are we nerfing the Obelisk to compensate? If not leave the AGT as it is I say, the other changes are for the birds.


I fully understand nods harvester delivery problem in that Nod is way behind on eco but this solution is going to create rush problems with bikes/buggies and GDI WF can be blocked to compensate for nods later delivery's.

Other solutions need to be explored, for example harvester being constructed at the ref for both factions (just throwing this out there as a preliminary idea, not a solution), Instant invisible plane that Mesacer worked on just for harvs?

Bikes having faster delivery causes more problems than it solves imho.

[Insert Name]

I want to remind you that plane delivery times still depend on map width.
On "Blood And Sand" (144x144) it takes about 18 seconds for a plane to deliver, while on Chokepoint (64x32) it's only about 8 seconds.

I kind of think, that makes delivery times a little unreliable to use them for balancing. I would just replace them with an animation and adjust build times or something.

[Beans]

TD Balance Council will be investigating planes and delivery issues in due course, if you wish to submit yourself for a seat on the council you can present your case for this and the opening of a new seat will be voted on, alternately if a seat is vacated you can be co-opted. At present the council is full and you can make your submissions via written representation to myself as current Chair, it will be debated by the Balance Council and you will be informed if your application has been successful or not.

[Mesacer]

I want to remind you that plane delivery times still depend on map width.
On "Blood And Sand" (144x144) it takes about 18 seconds for a plane to deliver, while on Chokepoint (64x32) it's only about 8 seconds.

I kind of think, that makes delivery times a little unreliable to use them for balancing. I would just replace them with an animation and adjust build times or something.

Ive done some experimenting with with the delivery planes. The First one is the plane speed is a function of time, so the time to deliver will be independent of the map size. The other is that the plane will spawn at consistent distance from the airstrip.
https://youtu.be/eM_djiZmbZY
https://youtu.be/5PK_TelRJYs

[Insert Name]

Very nice and much better than my workaround suggestion. If this gets added to the engine, please make the delivery times adjustable in yaml.

[Graion Dilach]

the plane will spawn at consistent distance from the airstrip.

This one sounds the more preferable IMO - the other option could be jarring after matches on different maps.

[AoAGeneral1]

New map updates:

https://resource.openra.net/maps/32049/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/32048/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/32047/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/32046/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/32045/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/32044/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/32043/

https://resource.openra.net/maps/32042/

Following changes in the maps:

Changed AGT spread damage from 683 to 283.
Changed AGT infantry damage from 48 to 58.
Changed Silo power to from -10 to 0.
Changed Commando cost from 2000 to 1300.
Changed Nod Cargo plane speed. (It looks dumb but its for testing.)
Changed Service Depot fix rate from 15 to 10.
Changed Refinery tiberium holding from 700 to 1000.
Changed Silo cost from 300 to 100.
Tech Structures no longer have sabotage capturing. (One engineer to take tech structures from enemies)

[ZxGanon]

Those are actually really good changes.

Changed Nod Cargo plane speed.

Any change to this mechanic will make Nod viable in 1v1 again so that is great news.

Tech Structures no longer have sabotage capturing. (One engineer to take tech structures from enemies)

Unexpected change but very good.