Early access to tech centre -- soviet vs allies balance

zinc · Post by **zinc** » Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:36 pm

So when it comes to the idea of artillery being overpowered against Soviets, I was thinking about having early access to the tech centre. I should point out that I don't personally complain about this issue. I play allies and Soviets probably 50/50 or maybe more Soviets now as I find them more interesting and fun to play.

I think the two sides are broadly speaking balanced. But some people do complain about the difficulty of countering artillery in the early game. So would early access to the tech centre and put a rush on iron curtain be an answer for some people? So high tech before radar. I doubt it would be overpowered for Soviets. Early game units would be flak trucks and APCs. They can't do much damage even when iron curtained. They can counter artillery and helis very well but not much more. Well ignoring what the the APCs may be carrying anyway. And chronosphere wouldn't be that powerful if rushed. Small tanks or rangers... Although possibly a rush to chrono an mcv could be dangerous.

So yeah, a possible solution for a problem I doubt is even much of a problem.

Post by **Murto the Ray** » Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:53 pm

Also think about whether there should be earlier access to tech OR if it should be easier to apply pressure to players early game. At the moment there is almost no early push (prior to around 5 minutes) that can take out a semi-skilled player with a few defensive structures and units. Perhaps making defences harder to get/even more expensive/less effective would encourage players to apply pressure earlier and punish players who choose to tech; making builds like a double ref before war factory more viable AND hitting two birds with one stone by also making base pushes less effective and expansions harder to defend without a decent army.

JuiceBox · Post by **JuiceBox** » Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:05 pm

I pretty sure am close to a FiveAces quotation here '' artillery arnt even that good I hardly ever build them , In Higher level games they are hardly ever used''. This was before the range nerf too.

They have already been nerfed what more do people want ????

zinc · Post by **zinc** » Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:22 pm

Murto the Ray wrote: ↑Also think about whether there should be earlier access to tech OR if it should be easier to apply pressure to players early game. At the moment there is almost no early push (prior to around 5 minutes) that can take out a semi-skilled player with a few defensive structures and units. Perhaps making defences harder to get/even more expensive/less effective would encourage players to apply pressure earlier and punish players who choose to tech; making builds like a double ref before war factory more viable AND hitting two birds with one stone by also making base pushes less effective and expansions harder to defend without a decent army.

Yes this is a good point I think. It's too easy at the moment for an allies player to shut down most early game attacks just having a pill box on stand by. Even a determined attack can probably be stopped unless you maybe go all in with your primary mcv and a load of troops and then build base defence. But then that's not a style of play that really should be encouraged imo.

I have suggested elsewhere of the possibility of having the option of moving base defence to the main build tab. That and price increases may be worth experimenting with.

Doomsday · Post by **Doomsday** » Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:50 pm

Murto the Ray wrote: ↑At the moment there is almost no early push (prior to around 5 minutes) that can take out a semi-skilled player with a few defensive structures and units.

When it comes to taking out a player before five minutes, I think early game rushes in RTS should not win the game immediately - they should slow the opponent down more than it slows you down. Lately I've had some success with double rush. Two sets of rush groups approaching enemy from different directions. You attack the enemy forcing a defensive pillbox and then back away trying to minimize losses. Second larger rush group attacks from different side exploiting the fact that enemy pillbox build is on cooldown and all infantry have moved to defend against first rush.

If artillery is hard to counter, maybe we could nerf it even further. I think artillery-type of units should be support units. If players spam them a lot, there could be something wrong with balance. We could make light tank and mobile flaks slightly better as they seem to be the main counter against artillery. Something small like +10% HP on light tank and mobile flak.

Smitty · Post by **Smitty** » Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:31 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak8igonFVDE&t=1161s

18:48

zinc · Post by **zinc** » Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:45 am

Early game rushes maybe should often be a slowing down rather than a victory. But I don't see why they shouldn't be a victory perhaps if you haven't focused at all on building up an army.

And nerfing artillery again would be taking away from one of the fun parts of the game. I don't agree that they should just be a "support unit" in the game. Rather I think it's better if it's map dependent, so some maps will give artillery a lesser role and favour tanks and mobile armies. But some maps will favour non-stop artillery builds and shelling the enemy positions. So basically, different types of game available depending on what you like to play. Or just have a "no artie/V2" game option for players that are sick of artillery battles.

lucassss · Post by **lucassss** » Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:16 pm

APCs can do tons of damage with iron curtain when used to crush infantry blobs.

zinc · Post by **zinc** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:33 am

lucassss wrote: ↑APCs can do tons of damage with iron curtain when used to crush infantry blobs.

I doubt that would make the early game dangerously unbalanced.

JuiceBox · Post by **JuiceBox** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:53 am

I like to apply early pressure. As allies a couple of rocket troops and some gunners can try snipe an ore truck or two against a greedy build . Most of my shenanigans come from a little gren rush tryna pop the power or blow a solo ore ref. You only really get caught out if your beening greedy or unatentive. I am also of the opinion an early rush shouldn't win a game but it does happen.

To the subject about the artillery , when I first played this it used to piss me right off. I mean keyboard slamming moments. It's all about the learning curve you will learn to beat it as Soviet it just takes time. The problem arises if you introduced quicker tech to counter you will help the newer players but over power the better ones.