Red Alert European League - announcement/discussion

Kick-starting a long awaited competition/league

Announcements and discussion about community-run events.
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Would you be able to participate in the proposed schedule?

Yes! Post the registration thread already!
8
53%
No, it would likely conflict with my own schedule.
2
13%
No, because time-zones:(
1
7%
No, not interested in 1v1s.
4
27%
 
Total votes: 15

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SoScared
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Red Alert European League - announcement/discussion

Post by SoScared »

I've been looking to OpenRA for years to get a continuous competition focused around 1v1s. It's time to kick up some dust so I'll be hosting an Alpha Season over 3 streams - 16th, 23th, 30th of November, shortly after the conclusion of the Big Team Tournament. The idea is to grow interest, encourage more development into the compo.openra.net site and hopefully provide some useful experience on 1v1 competition formats along the way.

This is how we start out:



Setup - Season Alpha


There will be a first-come-first-served registration into the first league's group stage. Players registered outside the group stage are placed in a Queue (first-come-first-served as well), in which they will promote/qualify entries into the next season and also be first in line to replace no-shows for ongoing seasons. I'll also reserve the right to favor reoccurring players on OpenRA over newcomers (Alpha and Beta season only) should I feel it necessary for consistency sake.

The Alpha Season kicks off with a group stage, 6 players divided into two groups of 3 players. Within the group each player has a 'host' and a 'guest' game against the other players, 'host' meaning the player gets to pick the map out of a preset map pool. Each win is rewarded a point. In the event of ties the players will be ranked against each other based on their 'guest' points and if ultimately necessary, on $kill points. With each win the players carry with them their $ kills from the statistics' combat tab. The group winners play against each other in a final, in a best-of-5 with a preset series of maps. The rest of the group either stale, re-qualifies or relegate intro the next season (Beta Season) depending on the expansion of next season's group size (from 3 to 4 players)..

All matches will be played within my scheduled Monday streams at http://www.twitch.tv/soscared. I'm hoping to see this league branch out onto more streamers in multiple regions to eventually support a global event.


The suggested Season Alpha schedule:
  • Week 1, Monday 16 November - Group A - Players [a,b,c] each participates in 2 host + 2 guest matches in the following order: (a vs b), (b vs c), (c vs a), (b vs a), (c vs b), (a vs c) in a total number of 6 group matches.
  • Week 2, Monday 23 November - Group B - Players [d,e,f] in the same formula as above
  • Week 3, Monday 30 November - The Finals - winner of 'Group A' versus winner of 'Group B' in a 'best of 5'


League Development
  • The map pool will strictly adhere to standards that allows for 'open field warfare'. Meaning no maps are allowed that pins players to certain locations on the map, limiting armies' abilities to do counter measures during the entirety of the match.
  • Group winners moves on to a knock-out stage, currently just a 'best-of-5' finals.
  • The bottom two group finishers will have to either relegate or qualify with listed Queue players, depending on the size of the next league's group stage. Regardless, 1st and 2nd player in Queue will be promoted directly, 3rd and 4th in Queue will be able to play qualifier matches (moving them up the queue should they fail to qualify).
  • No-showers in the group stage are relegated to the bottom of the Queue and replaced by the 1st player in Queue.
  • No-showers for players in the queue that are up for promotion or qualification are unregistered for the league, unless they msg me at least 1 week before the start of the season, in which the player will have his Queue position 'frozen' for the upcoming season. Players in Queue unexpectedly qualifying/advancing due to others ahead in the Queue having a no-show, will also have their Queue position 'frozen' for the upcoming season.
  • The league winner receives a title and price, currently $50 (depends on a successful execution).
The league format will likely change, e.g. expanding the group stage for future seasons in order to include more players. Given my stream timezone, the league will at first favor European players. During the league's development I'll be looking for possibilities of eventually making it a global event.



Match Rules

  1. Default mod Red Alert, latest release
  2. Standard lobby settings, except crates 'off'. Players can also agree to 'Explored Map' for new maps in the group stage.
  3. Random starting position.
  4. Player names must remain consistent during a season.
  5. Host player in the group stage decides the map from the preset map pool.
  6. Finalists play a best-of-5 on a preset series of maps, scrambled from the preset map pool.
  7. Current map pool (still to be decided): Warwind, Sidestep, Tabula Rasa, Interior Halls, Dual Vegetation, Interference, Behind The Veil 1v1, Cold Front 1v1
  8. Players may not pick maps of their own creation in their 'host' matches or play them in knock-out rounds (currently just the finals).
  9. Players waiting in the group stage may follow the stream but are not allowed to spectate matches between opponents in their own group. Stream will run with a 3 minute delay.
  10. Disallowed exploits (see Github): #9902


Registration thread (link)



Contact information:

- PM my Sleipnir username
- SoScared123@GMail.com
- Skype: SoScared101
- I'm occasionally to be found on IRC at #OpenRA.
Last edited by SoScared on Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:39 pm, edited 40 times in total.

Murto the Ray
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Post by Murto the Ray »

If the new playtest is used will the speed setting be normal or faster? Also, doesn't the $kill system favor players who draw out combat rather than win early? An early rush probably shouldn't be enough to take out a skilled player but in the event that it is there is there isn't a reward for doing so. Also, if a player surrenders because they know defeat is certain that could lead to the winning player getting less $kill points as a result.

I like the concept i just think it needs refining; perhaps it should be the ratio of $kill:$Death instead or the assets that the player has; something that shouldn't effect gameplay - though perhaps im just looking too much into this.

In any case - very excited for the tourney whether i'm in it or not!

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SoScared
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Post by SoScared »

Murto the Ray wrote: If the new playtest is used will the speed setting be normal or faster? Also, doesn't the $kill system favor players who draw out combat rather than win early? An early rush probably shouldn't be enough to take out a skilled player but in the event that it is there is there isn't a reward for doing so. Also, if a player surrenders because they know defeat is certain that could lead to the winning player getting less $kill points as a result.

I like the concept i just think it needs refining; perhaps it should be the ratio of $kill:$Death instead or the assets that the player has; something that shouldn't effect gameplay - though perhaps im just looking too much into this.
It's gonna be a stat only used in awkward tie situations, but yes it will favor players in the longer matches, rewarding players spending more time in the league. I like your $kills/$death ratio suggestion much better but I'll keep things simple this time around. Also, encouraging players to surrender earlier rather than make opponents hunt down their last MCV I think is a good thing! I didn't think about that. For the opening season the $kills will mostly be recorded as a fun stat.

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kyrylo
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Post by kyrylo »

It's good that there's a map pool. However, I would choose a different method for choosing maps. Instead of whitelisting maps (that is, a player picks their favourite map), use blacklisting. So, for the first round, given the list of all maps players simply ban 5 maps they don't want to play (2 maps should remain). For the final round they ban 2 maps (so 5 maps remain). This system works for CS:GO tournaments. It also helps tourny hosts to determine least favourite maps, so they can be replaced.

I would add to the rules that crates should be disabled, because they add unnecessary randomness, which is bad for 1v1 games.

EDIT: there's also a serious issue with $kill stats when you use demo trucks. Basically, the game calculates it differently, depending on the circumstances the truck was blown up.

https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/issues/9044
https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/issues/9729

noobmapmaker
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Post by noobmapmaker »

In my nighshift my brain cannot comprehend everything you've posted, BUTTT yes league would be awesome!
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anjew
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Post by anjew »

I still have a few ideas from wanting to do the same with TD.

I think in a tie situation, whoever completed their matches in the least amount of time should be considered the victor. Using statistics like $kill can be very misleading and will lead to disappointment as in-depth statistics like that can often be misleading of the ending score. CSGO uses the rounds for and against in the event of ties which is essential the same as seeing who won their matches the quickest.

CSGO is a bit different when is comes to map selection since they use best of 3's and they have the edge of the other team choosing its side when a team chooses a map. The ban veto system they use for BO1 might work but it would depend on the map pool size. Using 7 maps both sides would have to ban 3 maps or have a random selector choose from the last 3 maps and you have to flip a coin or something to decide who picks. Then the other player would select what position on the map to take.

I would say you could get through 4 players per group but I kind of enjoy your idea of having a round robin home vs away set up.

I would legitimately recommend using the playtest or abstaining until the playtest is fixed more since there are balancing issues with the factions in RA (something which makes a competition entirely noncompetitive and illegitimate). Then again maybe you guys knows a good counter by now for the shock troopers.

In the end, I'm definitely interested :) another good reason to brush up on my RA :D
Hopefully we can have something similiar for TD
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klaas
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Post by klaas »

I like the idea of a 1vs1 league. I think this setup is way to complicated though. This requires the players to log in together and such, which has been shown in the past to not work. A much easier alternative would be:

1) have a dedicated server for 1vs1 league (maybe with a password)
2) players join and tell the server they are playing a league game with some key sentence like:

"1vs1 league"

3) server saves the score in the end of the game by the players names

4) A ranking is made from all the collected scores.

How you rank players is up to debate. Personally I'd keep it simple in the beginning, just who has most wins is #1, but ofcourse you can implement any type of complicated ranking system with the resulting data

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anjew
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Post by anjew »

Does a server store replays on it side or is it only for the client?

Also this format does seem more like a tournament drawn out over 3 weeks.
What I was going to do with the TD league season was give everyone a match up for each week so they know who they are vsing then they just complete the match in the week (can make groups if there is too many people). You could make each match up a Best of 3 so there are a few games to play at least.
You could be ambitious and attempt to make 2 match ups a week.
but after the season there would be finals using the top 8/16 to find the victor :D

That was just what i was thinking. I do enjoy SoScared's idea for this still
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SoScared
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Post by SoScared »

I see a lot of great input here, I'll address them in this comment:

As for picking maps, the way it's proposed (in the group stage) is for getting the matches going nice and quick. It also supports the idea of meaningful 'host' and 'guest' points in the group stage. However it sounds like a great idea to implement that for the finals' 'best-of-5' and in knock-out stages in general.

As for $kill points, no it's not optimal. Don't forget tho it's a stat of last resort after both total points and 'guest' points and will mostly end up being recorded for entertainment value. Only the winner of each set gets to take with him his $kills points. I honestly don't think the $kill points will affect the gameplay (with the exception of surrendering a lost game earlier). While playing you're likely too caught up in the game to try figuring out an exploit for the late game, knowing the low probability of $kills playing a role. The amount of $kills earned after you're confident you're about to win is rather insignificant compared to the $kills earned during the match. I will however look it over and discuss it after the first season and if it ends up actually being a negative experience for a player we'll compensate his position regarding qualification for the next season (thereby possibly expanding the league by default) and naturally change the stat as well.


I don't think the setup as a whole is too complicated. I can understand that it sounds complicated given the detailed setup but keep in mind, no more than 3 players are required to be logged in for a session. If players for any reason can't meet the time, there'll be a queue list of players ready to take his spot. It's also tied up with regular streams which helps with continuity and participation.
anjew wrote: Also this format does seem more like a tournament drawn out over 3 weeks.
What I was going to do with the TD league season was give everyone a match up for each week so they know who they are vsing then they just complete the match in the week (can make groups if there is too many people). You could make each match up a Best of 3 so there are a few games to play at least.
You could be ambitious and attempt to make 2 match ups a week.
but after the season there would be finals using the top 8/16 to find the victor :D

That was just what i was thinking. I do enjoy SoScared's idea for this still
What makes the format a 'league' imo is that it's continuous, promoting and relegating players based on their performance from season to season. The league that I first seriously considered was the straight up seasonal league as you proposed as it more accurately ends up with the best player on top. I'd love to see that format develop in the community as well!

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kyrylo
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Post by kyrylo »

So, the final game is Murto The Ray vs FiveAces!

Pick the winner! http://strawpoll.me/6097007

Holloweye
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Post by Holloweye »

I'm interested to join the queue for the tournament if there will be a second one.

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SoScared
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Post by SoScared »

Holloweye wrote: I'm interested to join the queue for the tournament if there will be a second one.
I'm more than happy to place you in the queue! I'll announce the next season sometime after new year holidays.

Just for future reference, here's the registration thread: http://www.sleipnirstuff.com/forum/view ... 82&t=19061

Cheers!

**since this thread is already bumped, I'll share a short announcement video for the upcoming finals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBcIvUeJO0o

noobmapmaker
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Post by noobmapmaker »

Just wanted to say it was a well run tournament with tons of good games. I especially liked the mappack and the host/guest format. Its fun to see the strong players play on these maps!

Congrats to FiveAces, $50 prize money, right? Not bad :)
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