Team maps Mapmaking Workshop (2v2, 3v3)

Need for new good-quality, competitive maps

Information and discussion for custom maps and mods.
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FRenzy
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Post by FRenzy » Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:47 pm

Blackened wrote: I think the proposed changes will make the map a lot better.
Thanks for the confirmation !
Starting to work on the map in the editor ^^
Blackened wrote: I spent an hour or so and made a rough rendition for you.
If you want, you can upload your upgraded map here (unless you want to work on it for longer on your side, no pbm)
Happy wrote: It would be nice if someone remade Mad Science. Its a personal favorite 2v2 map but there's loads of troubles in it with bad ore placements in the center and the bio-lab etc.
I think when I'm done with Jungle Law, I will look at the 2v2 maps that exist, and see which ones are interesting to be upgraded or overhauled ! (or 1v1s and how to transform them into 2v2)

Don't hesitate to make propositions if you have :)

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noobmapmaker
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Post by noobmapmaker » Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:27 am

Pro-map-making tip by PizzaAtomica: maps become more organical/aestheticly pleasing when you try to never use the same terraintile twice in a row. (sidenote: challenge: build a map where you use every terraintile and actor only once, ore is the only exception to the rule)

Also instead of a long cliff, you can end a cliff and immeditaly start it again (making it impassable as well). Or end the cliff, put some debris and trees there and then continue the cliff. Same impenetrable cliff, but slightly more eye-pleasing. Ofcourse you can also use debris to make the same terraintile look very different.

And as many mapmakers also do: make a map look less symmetrical by varying the types of terrain. By this I mean: If on spot A there is a circular shape of cliffs, then instead of copying that to its symmetrical opposing site, choose for a bunch of trees or a small circular lake. Again you reach the same result (a circular impassable piece of terrain) without the map looking really symmetrical.

And ofcourse some maps should look symmetrical and are actually nice to see because of that, like vegetation (looks nice) or tournament Island (has to be 100% equal). But personally I think 2v2/3v3 maps that look organical/natural are even better. The original cold front (3v3) and Mad Science (2v2) are great examples.

In approx a month from today I will have finished some business and go for some 2v2/3v3 map design as well, btw.
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FRenzy
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Post by FRenzy » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:36 am

noobmapmaker wrote: Pro-map-making tip by PizzaAtomica: ...
Thanks for the tips man.
Yes from what I recall, PizzaAtomica's mas are very well designed aesthetically.
I might use them as a reference for future designs.
Also, we could make a list of nice looking maps / good mapmakers, to use as a reference. Let's make it here, if anyone knows any good maps / mapmakers, tell us.


Currently I'm still in the testing phase, where my only concern is the playability, if the map has a good gameplay quality. Although I'm trying to make maps that are not so bad looking ^_^, but I do a lot of copy paste, and quick drawing, to get things done quickly. Then, when my map will be stabilized, I might then start polishing and making it more aesthetical.

I would advice mapmakers to really focus first on playabilty (cf check-list). Because this is what currently lacks in team maps ... thus this topic :P
noobmapmaker wrote: In approx a month from today I will have finished some business and go for some 2v2/3v3 map design as well, btw.
Welcome on board :) Looking forward to see your creations ;)

---
Your tips make me think that I should add a post on my mapmaking process, and especially what tools I'm using.
Will do that after my map's v0.4 is published

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noobmapmaker
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Post by noobmapmaker » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:49 am

Yes, for sure focus on playability first and once that is finished you can polish everything to make it look good.
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Materianer
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Post by Materianer » Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:44 am

Finally i Finished the mäp.
Most of the work was definitly the actors/Details and oreplacement to make it as balanced as possible. ;D
No i Wont count tiles or cells or do something like mirror the tiles exactly, that makes the map ugly imo.
The only thing i count is the resources.

I added some random woods on the outlines of the map here and weather effects ( must be turned on in lobby first )

Image
FRenzy wrote: - the cliffs seem too long to me. I mean that there are no connections between lanes : you can't exit the lane to go to another one. I believe this should be avoided.
Let's say : put 3 wide openings on the horizontals cliffs
- the tiny horizontal 1-cell bridge : they make the entire lane feel like a 1-cell lane (a lane is as narrow as its narrowest point IMO). I wouldn't put them, OR as previously said I'd make openings between lanes, so those bridges can be avoided if possible.
-Yes i opened the cliffs in the middle thats enough i think the outter way is more meant to be a sneakattack-lane.
-There are small dirt paths over the rivers was not noticeable on the big picture

Image



Here a picture of the mid in wich only can be build if the houses at the beach are destroyed.
Image
FRenzy wrote: - big bridges : maybe they should be destroyed at game start ? To allow naval movement. And to force engy usage, if a player wants to open the bridge.
Yes good idea i will try this in the next version i think, i destroy the 2 bridges wich you can see on this picture then.

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FRenzy
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Post by FRenzy » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:23 pm

Dowloaded your map on the resource center Materianer, will test it later

--------

For my part, Jungle Law's v0.4 (finally ^^) finished !

See updated OP : http://www.sleipnirstuff.com/forum/view ... 036#303036

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Wippie
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Post by Wippie » Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:58 am

FRenzy wrote:
For my part, Jungle Law's v0.4 (finally ^^) finished !

See updated OP : http://www.sleipnirstuff.com/forum/view ... 036#303036
Heya Frenzy,

I like the layout. It works good for teamgames, without becoming HUGE.

Some thoughts: I think the ore in the late game will dry up, going into an low eco match. I would suggest to:
- Make the backward orepatches (without an ore mine) either an oremine or a gemmine. My favourite option would be the gemmine, and also add one oremine on the middlepatch. This creates a total of 7 primary objectives with all other ore mines being secondary objectives.

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Wippie
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Post by Wippie » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:31 am

eskimo wrote: That #16 map entry. Whilst this is an assumption based on the picture, it looks like a rush to the island map = win. This is a reason why i dislike the current team maps. It's too easy to shut down lanes and eco sources and then turtle up.
Thanks for the feedback Eskimo, and you we're totally right. Funny thing is, in most of the games I specced, this wasn't used by the players at all, because it was too much trouble to break down the wall.

I reworked several areas on the map. Please let me know what you think.

http://resource.openra.net/maps/21987


Updated 02/07/2017

Image:
Image
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FRenzy
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Post by FRenzy » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:49 am

Wippie wrote: - Make the backward orepatches (without an ore mine) either an oremine or a gemmine.
Oh damn, completely forgot those ... that was me rushing out the map yesterday evening lol

Gem mine won't work correctly on an ore patch I think. I've put 2 ore mines instead, on each big patch.
Wippie wrote: This creates a total of 7 primary objectives with all other ore mines being secondary objectives.
Not sure which ones you're talking about ?

Actually, it's difficult to figure each player's objectives. I usually take northern players as a reference : for me, they have 2 patches to contest between themselves, + the central patch contested by both teams, while having 4/5 secure patches.

The central players seem to have at least 6 secured ore patches, nothing to contest (only central patch)
But if you think FFA, then things get mixed up.

It's not easy to figure out a good layout with FFA and 3v3 in mind ... let's test this out, and see out it goes :

v0.4B updated !
http://www.sleipnirstuff.com/forum/view ... 036#303036

My (dormant) YouTube channel : FRenzy OpenRA
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FRenzy
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Post by FRenzy » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:54 am

Wippie wrote:
eskimo wrote: That #16 map entry. Whilst this is an assumption based on the picture, it looks like a rush to the island map = win. This is a reason why i dislike the current team maps. It's too easy to shut down lanes and eco sources and then turtle up.
Thanks for the feedback Eskimo, and you we're totally right. Funny thing is, in most of the games I specced, this wasn't used by the players at all, because it was too much trouble to break down the wall.

I reworked several areas on the map. Please let me know what you think.

http://resource.openra.net/maps/21987
Will test out this evening !

My (dormant) YouTube channel : FRenzy OpenRA
Join the map-making train here

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Wippie
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Post by Wippie » Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:26 am

FRenzy wrote:
Not sure which ones you're talking about ?

Actually, it's difficult to figure each player's objectives. I usually take northern players as a reference : for me, they have 2 patches to contest between themselves, + the central patch contested by both teams, while having 4/5 secure patches.

The central players seem to have at least 6 secured ore patches, nothing to contest (only central patch)
But if you think FFA, then things get mixed up.
The general idea is: the more eco there is in one spot, the more attention the spot will create. I guess it's fine to have no special eco heavy spot. Nice example is "Patches" by SoScared, where no two games will out exactly the same way.

A big problem in teamgames is basepushing. I guess its a good idea to create some space between the 6 middle ore patches and the center area. I feel controlling the center area, will also mean having the ability to place tesla/turrets just across the ridge of the ore patches effectively denying mining.

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FRenzy
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Post by FRenzy » Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:42 am

Wippie wrote: A big problem in teamgames is basepushing. I guess its a good idea to create some space between the 6 middle ore patches and the center area. I feel controlling the center area, will also mean having the ability to place tesla/turrets just across the ridge of the ore patches effectively denying mining.
Absolutely. I had that in mind during the design.
That's why I've put trees on the ridges, to prevent placing turrets directly next to them. I dunno if it will work and be enough.
With this map size, I can't really make them further from each other. That's why I think the best option is to use trees / debris.
Also, you might have noticed the obstacles on the outer ring. Same reasons.

I wanna test this version tonight after work, and see if it works ^^ If not, we'll figure out how to change it :)

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Materianer
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Post by Materianer » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:43 pm

Updäte

http://resource.openra.net/maps/22000/

22K nice hehe oO

I made an Option for Players to get a base near the gemfields at the top and bottom of the map.

Image

Destroy the houses to get access

The village people spreaded some ore to prevent theyr village from getting overrun by gems.

Image

Also i reduced the ore a bit for the players was bit too much.

hf testing this and report me change requests please here ;D

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FRenzy
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Post by FRenzy » Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:42 am

Materianer wrote: Updäte
http://resource.openra.net/maps/22000/
Will try to get you some replays soon

By the way, I updated OP, with a reference to your map, on the others that have been started.
http://www.sleipnirstuff.com/forum/view ... 035#303035
Please everyone (Materianer, Wippie, Blackened) look at the main post referenced for your map. So if you wanna edit your post with your updating, and make a nice and organized post for your map, feel free :)


-----------------------

Updated Jungle Law v0.5 ! Better looking, and more starting ore !
http://www.sleipnirstuff.com/forum/view ... 036#303036

My (dormant) YouTube channel : FRenzy OpenRA
Join the map-making train here

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Wippie
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Post by Wippie » Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:56 pm

FRenzy wrote:
Materianer wrote: Updäte
http://resource.openra.net/maps/22000/
Will try to get you some replays soon

By the way, I updated OP, with a reference to your map, on the others that have been started.
http://www.sleipnirstuff.com/forum/view ... 035#303035
Please everyone (Materianer, Wippie, Blackened) look at the main post referenced for your map. So if you wanna edit your post with your updating, and make a nice and organized post for your map, feel free :)


-----------------------

Updated Jungle Law v0.5 ! Better looking, and more starting ore !
http://www.sleipnirstuff.com/forum/view ... 036#303036
Thank you, Add screenshot to the original post for convenience purposes. Will try and get soom good games going now on these maps.

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