RA Sea balance

I want to talk about the balance of sea battles in RA

Discussion about the game and its default mods.
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Hodor
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Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:32 pm

RA Sea balance

Post by Hodor »

Hi,

i think there is a problem with the balance of the water units. Soviet subs are dominant until hinds are there for the allied. There is no way to counter air units covering water for the soviet until lategame. And even with missile-subs its suicide to attack the guarding air units. This cant be handled as a fair trade. Usually, with the same amount of invested micro and attention of both participating players the soviet needs to have 2 missile-subs in place to kill 1 hind/ longbow/yak, and he will lose 1 of his 2000$ subs with this manuver, because there usually never is 1 air unit alone.

The devs once decided to implement the Flaktruck from RA2 to the soviet fraction in OpenRA because it was necessary for the balance. I think it is necessary to give soviet fractions either a ship with aa capabilities like the Sea Scorpion from RA2 or ADD AIR TO AIR CAPABILITIES TO FKN MIGS.

I wrote the latter in capital because i wonder this never happened. I know it was talked about sometimes but ever got discarded. I dont know why because at least to me it feels super obvious that longbows give allies a flying air to air option, while migs ridiculously dont.

As we look how bad Flaktrucks trade versus Hinds if both players are on attention, it cant be an argument that the counter to a flying allied anti air unit should be the soviet Flack Truck.


I would wonder if i am alone with this impression. Please let me hear your thoughts on this. And please, dont be too "elite". No offense :)

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netnazgul
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Re: RA Sea balance

Post by netnazgul »

Yes, naval balance a longstanding issue that is bypassed and ignored for the time being, cause there is no simple approach possible to it.

The latest iteration of playing with naval stuff you can check here: viewtopic.php?f=83&t=21141
That also has some references to previous attempts.

Also the topic is labeled "RA sea balance", but for some reason it's mostly about AA Migs ;)

Hodor
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Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:32 pm

Re: RA Sea balance

Post by Hodor »

netnazgul wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 3:15 pm

Also the topic is labeled "RA sea balance", but for some reason it's mostly about AA Migs ;)
true true, but the first half actually is about subs and sea units. But i agree it went down the path to AA migs :D

Thx for the linked post, i go check it out.

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netnazgul
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Re: RA Sea balance

Post by netnazgul »

@Hodor [I'd answer to PM via PM, but you have that disabled in your account so I can't send you messages :P]
wonder why i cant find a big balance threat for RA. Is nobody else unhappy with that?
I'd say mostly balance talks happen in Official Discord now and then fall into Github PR directly. So if you want to stay in touch with current state of affairs you'd better join both of those.
Shall i consider sea balance as something that will never be fixed? Is it so hard to give Sovjet a water unit with AA capabilities? The rocket sub is not what i talk about, it is easy to be outmicroed, very bad trade for the sovjet.

Sometimes is stop playing OpenRA because i got fucked up by the imbalance between the needed effort a sovjet player has to deliver vs an allied player.

One Cannonboat can defeat multiple subs just by micro. Why allied are allowed to have a flying AA unit, and sovjiet isnt.
Why allied is allowed to have an infantry butcher like Tanya and sovjiet isnt?
Yes, I'll repeat myself that there is no simple approach on naval rebalance. With just 5 naval units available, it's impossible (at least I think so) to balance them in a way that will allow fair play for both factions. At the same time, adding new assets should be carefully considered and weighted, as this project and RA mod in particular is still and will be an attempt to reimplement the original game as playable as possible with as few new assets infusions as possible. Talking specifics, several attempts have been made - namely Sea Scorpion from RA2 and Flak Trap submarine, but so far only as modifications, no real work made to take those upstream yet.

Other questions I can't really answer in a few words. If only - it is an vision to make asymmetric balance with factions and so far it works decently.

Hodor
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:32 pm

Re: RA Sea balance

Post by Hodor »

Hi!

It took me a while to notice your answer :D I didnt knew i made it impossible to sent me a PM. Thanks to you for answering here.

Thank you for telling me about the Discord option, maybe i will go there and see further.

And finally, thsank you for taking time to answer my balance questions the second time :)

Regards

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