Option to disable the "Auto-exclude" MCV & Eng

i never asked for this..

Discussion about the game and its default mods.
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avalach21
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Option to disable the "Auto-exclude" MCV & Eng

Post by avalach21 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:04 am

I am not a baby and I know how to micro my stuff properly. When I click & drag and select an MCV/Engineer in a group, I want them included. The game assumes that I wouldn't possibly ever want to move my MCV with an escort of units in the same group, or an engineer towards a derrick or into a transport with a group in escort.

Instead, I have to drag and select my army and move it, then i have to deselect and individually move my MCV/ engineer. I know that is so thoughtful of you to think that these non-combat units should be excluded from the group, but honestly, I can't think of a single time where I found this convenient and it makes microing in these potentially tense moments an incredible pain in the ass. It was also never like this in a single C&C game that I can remember...

You know which non combat units might actually be useful to exclude from the group? Medics and Mechanics.. but no they aren't excluded.. whatever though. I would just rather have no auto exclusion logic at all personally.. I'm sure some people out there enjoy it so could we have a checkbox in the input options to disable this? sry for sounding pissy lol

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IronScion
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Post by IronScion » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:29 am

Having shift+select cancel this logic and select all units could be a nice solution
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MustaphaTR
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Post by MustaphaTR » Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:16 am

IronScion wrote: Having shift+select cancel this logic and select all units could be a nice solution
I'm pretty sure shift currently adds units to selection without uselecting other units. Not sure if ctrl does anything regarding selection tho.

eskimo
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Post by eskimo » Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:51 am

At first it's weird but when you get used to it it's great. It saves time by not grouping units and you can send that engi and mcv on shift click duties while A scout moving everywhere with the guarding units. Same applies to harvs, if at last minute you catch someone attacking your harvs you can just click Q and A move without disrupting your harvs and have them flee or tank also.

[Edit]

See your a 2015 joiner. I have no answer. If your average APM is less than 30 you're not mircoing enough sadly.

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Clockwork
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Post by Clockwork » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:50 pm

Completely agree with the OP here, worst is trying to transfer harvesters but you have a lone rifleman in your ore. No need to apologise for complaining thats how stuff gets done :)

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netnazgul
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Post by netnazgul » Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:43 pm

Just don't have a lone rifleman in your ore, problem solved :P

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Clockwork
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Post by Clockwork » Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:26 pm

Is there any reason for the current influx of smart ass comments and behavior from a lot of people while I've been on RA vacation or has Barf not been spanking the loyal subjects into submission hard enough.

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avalach21
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Post by avalach21 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:09 pm

eskimo wrote: At first it's weird but when you get used to it it's great. It saves time by not grouping units and you can send that engi and mcv on shift click duties while A scout moving everywhere with the guarding units. Same applies to harvs, if at last minute you catch someone attacking your harvs you can just click Q and A move without disrupting your harvs and have them flee or tank also.

[Edit]

See your a 2015 joiner. I have no answer. If your average APM is less than 30 you're not mircoing enough sadly.
Lol, as I clearly stated in my OP, I am not a baby and I know how to micro. Yes I joined the forums in 2015 but i've been playing Red alert + C&C since 1996.

As I also said, some people out there probably enjoy it, such as yourself apparently. So I am wondering if there are other people out there like me that find this annoying
Happy wrote: Completely agree with the OP here, worst is trying to transfer harvesters but you have a lone rifleman in your ore. No need to apologise for complaining thats how stuff gets done :)
Which apparently there is. Thanks for mentioning harversters... knew I was forgetting something.

So yes you seem to to enjoy it and "got used to it." I sure am used to it and have learned to deal with it, but it's just annoying and not beneficial to me at all. I would rather select the group, get it moving in the general direction I want them all to go, then if I need to give specific instructions to the MCV/engi/harvester, I can single them out and give them specific orders once they are already in motion towards where they need to go.


Also. as I said, some people seem to enjoy it, others like me & happy find it a nuisance, so I am suggesting an option to enable/disable this functionality

eskimo
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Post by eskimo » Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:31 pm

Happy wrote: Is there any reason for the current influx of smart ass comments and behavior from a lot of people while I've been on RA vacation or has Barf not been spanking the loyal subjects into submission hard enough.
We promoted Net until your return :D

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anjew
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Post by anjew » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:52 pm

avalach21 wrote: not beneficial to me at all
You say this now but when your engineer runs to the front of battle you will realise its benefits.

It takes the same amount of micro with this logic as it does with out. The true benefit is that when you are selecting your army in your base to defend, it doesnt accidentally grab a harvester or MCV thats in use and needed.

I dont think it should be a forced option but it should definitely be on by default as its the most helpful considering how these units handle attack moves
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Mo
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Post by Mo » Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:08 pm

Perhaps not for eng, but can see why for mcv and harvs.

Mo
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Post by Mo » Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:13 pm

netnazgul wrote: Just don't have a lone rifleman in your ore, problem solved :P
I usually set a lone rifleman to guard a harvester by automation to ward off potential harv snipes.

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avalach21
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Post by avalach21 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:03 am

anjew wrote:
avalach21 wrote: not beneficial to me at all
You say this now but when your engineer runs to the front of battle you will realise its benefits.

It takes the same amount of micro with this logic as it does with out. The true benefit is that when you are selecting your army in your base to defend, it doesnt accidentally grab a harvester or MCV thats in use and needed.

I dont think it should be a forced option but it should definitely be on by default as its the most helpful considering how these units handle attack moves
lol again I don't need someone condescendingly telling me "no you will learn that it is better this way." I fully understand why it would be useful - the harvester example you give is reasonable but I don't really drag huge boxes over my entire base ever... just my playing style. I usually have my units set to various hotkeys.. and yes you can say my engineer will run out in front of the battle but as I said.. I know how to micro properly and wouldn't let this happen.. I have played C&C for decades and been able to micro my engineers properly without this implemented behavior..

For me personally I find it to be an annoyance far more frequently then I find it to be useful and am simply requesting an option for the game mechanics to play as they were in the original release of C&C/RA etc,. Just as the game defaults to Warcraft/Starcraft style right click orders, I prefer the left click orders as the original C&C games were, and I'm glad that OpenRA devs included an option for me to change from the default settings to classic behavior.

You can say it takes the same amount of micro, but with my method, your MCV/engineer (& entire army) is in motion sooner saving precious seconds that could prove to be crucial in a fight over a derrick or getting an MCV deployed to quick build a barracks or defensive structure before the enemy arrives etc.

Otherwise, I totally agree with you. I'm not asking for either way to be forced, just for an option for the player to choose which style they like best. And I agree, leaving the current behavior as default would be the best approach.

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anjew
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Post by anjew » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:04 am

avalach21 wrote: lol again I don't need someone condescendingly telling me "no you will learn that it is better this way." I fully understand why it would be useful - the harvester example you give is reasonable but I don't really drag huge boxes over my entire base ever... just my playing style. I usually have my units set to various hotkeys.. and yes you can say my engineer will run out in front of the battle but as I said.. I know how to micro properly and wouldn't let this happen.. I have played C&C for decades and been able to micro my engineers properly without this implemented behavior..
I'm not being condescending, I was merely pointing out the benefit but you are suggesting you are so superior that the logic has never ever benefited you at all, which i actually think is quite condescending. Apparently you are better than most players here because thats a very easy mistake to make.
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eskimo
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Post by eskimo » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:37 am

Realistically i don't think it needs a change. As we can see with Mo's topic he would like to see medics, mechanics and radar jammers not require micro. We could also go down the route of selecting defence and having mcvs redeploy and move with one click also. Ignoring air units which was a TD thing originally too.

There's also the idea of holding a key while dragging to allow only X unit selected. Should this be devided into inf/tank, combat/non-combat, or into 20 odd categories, or fully customisable.

But then we get to the point the game is being party played for us and requires less practice.

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