Iroquois Gunship SHP

Discussion about the game and its default mods.
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Would you like to see the Iroquois accepted into OpenRA as a replacement for the Hind?

Yes
23
50%
No
23
50%
 
Total votes: 46

Mortecha
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:24 pm

Iroquois Gunship SHP

Post by Mortecha »

Unit download below:

In the politest possible way, I am simply curious about your views regarding this unit replacing the Hind.

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Unfortunately though, both pull requests have been denied due to the nature and magnitude of the discussions that have taken place around it. The devs are concerned about setting a precedent for future discussions regarding changes. But there won't another issue as big as this, where the community is so divided about it, so those concerns are misguided. The reason for why there is so much resistance against replacing the Hind is because you have gotten used to it over 6 years. But it's still an inaccuracy that people feel should be fixed. This is your chance to do just that.

After this I'll be focusing my efforts of a number of projects I have going. This process was a pleasure and if any of you feel offended then I give you my sincerest apology. The creative and innovative process is a messy one, where disagreements always lead to arguments. But the results of that are always exceptional.

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Edit: Added notification stating download available
Last edited by Mortecha on Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

zinc
Posts: 657
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:46 pm

Post by zinc »

I voted "no". The reason being, is that with the exception of the flak truck (needed for balance probably) the red alert mod has stuck to original units from the game. There was also a "sniper" unit that was removed, I think, because it wasn't original.

I would also object, say, to any major change to the MAD tank which took it too far away from the original. (I'm sure it can be made at least occasionally useful with some minor tinkering of attributes anyway.)

For me, I would rather resolve this issue in a way that keeps the original unit art. I don't mind so much if it's renamed to a cobra or whatever.

But it doesn't look like a cobra? Or it will look like a hind?

Just explain:

(1) the truth -- it's really a hind that was switched for game balance reasons.

(2) if you need an in-game fantasy explanation then say that the allies stole the blueprints for the hind and made their own version.

Basically I just don't worry about the art having to be authentic to military vehicles of the time. For me, keeping the game closer to the original will trump that concern.

I hope we can get loadable modifiers at some future time, which can work with any map, which will *then* allow a lot more experimentation with non-original extra units.

Mortecha
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:24 pm

Post by Mortecha »

The name should be reflective of what it represents. This is also exacerbated by the fact it's an iconic Russian attack helicopter.

For anyone who wants to play around with it, here is the download.

EDIT: Forgot to include the cameo.
Attachments
Iroquois Gunship.zip
(7.03 KiB) Downloaded 60 times
hueyicon.shp
(2.33 KiB) Downloaded 60 times
Last edited by Mortecha on Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

klaas
Posts: 208
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:38 am

Post by klaas »

I have to say the new unit does look nice. This would close this discussion once and for all. The name Iroquois doesn't tell me anything though, I'd stick to Huey, or Black Hawk or Cobra just for staying on the iconic side of things.

This would open the way for a third soviet faction that utilizes the Hind btw. Include sniper drops with a chinook, and we have something to play with. Maybe make the MAD tank also specific for this faction.

Mortecha
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:24 pm

Post by Mortecha »

klaas wrote: I have to say the new unit does look nice. This would close this discussion once and for all. The name Iroquois doesn't tell me anything though, I'd stick to Huey, or Black Hawk or Cobra just for staying on the iconic side of things.

This would open the way for a third soviet faction that utilizes the Hind btw. Include sniper drops with a chinook, and we have something to play with. Maybe make the MAD tank also specific for this faction.
A Blackhawk would also be quite a good choice too, especially in its gunship config. Just have to make it have two sets of chain guns instead of a mixed variety.

Image

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Materianer
Posts: 195
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:27 am

Post by Materianer »

klaas wrote: I have to say the new unit does look nice. This would close this discussion once and for all. The name Iroquois doesn't tell me anything though, I'd stick to Huey, or Black Hawk or Cobra just for staying on the iconic side of things.

This would open the way for a third soviet faction that utilizes the Hind btw. Include sniper drops with a chinook, and we have something to play with. Maybe make the MAD tank also specific for this faction.
Yes Yes Yes i also still want Volkov back :D

Mortecha
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:24 pm

Post by Mortecha »

Sounds like motive to make an mod instead of focusing on trying to change the RA mod itself. That way, there is no resistance towards ideas you feel are logical, no defence against ones you find illogical and no stupidity and miscommunication by everyone lol.
Last edited by Mortecha on Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

Nelax
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:02 pm

Post by Nelax »

I'd be happy to see this added. I think the Hind adaptation that was being worked on would've been less... "invasive" I guess, in the sense that it fixed the problem with the least amount of change needed. If keeping close to the original is the highest priority, I think it meets that while fixing this issue.

That said, this bares no resemblance to the original Hind so players are going to easily pick up on a new name. You can talk to Speeder about the renaming of the Navy SEAL to "Ghost" for a period in MO, people don't pick up on renames when there's an association already built up. The art tweak might be enough but I'd still be concerned about the new name not catching on. This could be compounded with the idea that if we are trying to get people away from the idea of the original Hind then, what difference is there from that and making a new unit?

As a nice bonus, this is more mod-friendly. It opens up room for someone to re-implement the Hind in their own mod, as has been noted by others, without having two very similar aircraft in play.

I'm not particularly caught up with the RA mod in OpenRA being super original. It'd rather not have it in an uncanny valley area as it certainly isn't going to be totally original.

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Sire
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:03 am

Post by Sire »

While in the end I personally voted "No" to keep the Hind as it is, I can see the new helicopter acting as a "modded skin" for those interested.

So, while officially OpenRA will remain as it is and keep the Hind for the Allies, those unsatisfied with this can download the Iroquois mod that replaces the Allied Hind with the Iroquois in terms of appearance. No stats are changed whatsoever, just the unit art and icon. This way, everyone wins because options exist.

Mortecha
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:24 pm

Post by Mortecha »

That's the idea. Why fight to change the RA mod and in the process completely disrupt the devs and community when you can just mod it yourself.

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