Removing/changing artilleries will create whole new gameplay

Discussion about the game and its default mods.
Fruit
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Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:30 pm

Removing/changing artilleries will create whole new gameplay

Post by Fruit »

I know this has been discussed many times, but when I was watching my replays i noticed 1 thing: I am only playing against people who chose Allies. Then watched all replays and guess what, all Allied opponents. And they all have the same play style. Building Arties, hinds and rocket soldiers.

I was reading some of the topics even on reddit where people were discussing the artilleries and I must say I disagree with many who say arties should be in the game. I am even willing to say that they have to be removed and if not their distance should be cut in half.

Believe me it will create a whole different play style with better tactics Just look at some of the matches on Fiveaces' channel where both players have a Russia faction, their play style is new, unique and fun to watch.


This game has become unplayable, witih same play style, over and over again.

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JuiceBox
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Post by JuiceBox »

I would have to disagree with you buddy. I know alot of discussion is goin on over the Artie's at the moment and I myself have found it difficult to play against them. Removing them completely seems rash and halving the range would render them pointless IMO. I think certain maps rain supreme for Artie's and others dont. Adopting different tactics is the way forward. As russia flack trucks and iron curtain are your best friend against it. simply trying to fight an artillery blob defended with aa guns head on is suicide. I have noticed with the better players that early pressure and simply don't let them build up the blob seems to be the best course of action. With that being said it's easier said than done but this is just my opinion :P

Peace

Fruit
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Post by Fruit »

JuiceBox wrote: I would have to disagree with you buddy. I know allot of discussion is goin on over the Artie's at the moment and I myself have found it difficult to play against them.
yeah there is a reason why many discuss it.
JuiceBox wrote: . I think certain maps rain supreme for Artie's and others don't.
which one? cause all maps I have played people spam arties
JuiceBox wrote: Adopting different tactics is the way forward. As Russia flack trucks and iron curtain are your best friend against it.
that is the only tactic everyone is using. Problem is, it takes a long time before the iron curtain is build.


JuiceBox wrote: simply trying to fight an artillery blob defended with aa guns head on is suicide.
this is what many people do, base walk build aa guns and spam arties.

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JuiceBox
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Post by JuiceBox »

Problem is if you remove arty from allied then the Soviet will base walk with v2.... like I said before as well you shouldn't really give them a chance to build up the artillery in the first. Snipe the radar dome try some early agression. It only turns into the trench warfare with two lines bombarding the other if you let it.

Murto the Ray
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Post by Murto the Ray »

For a long time maps for RA have been very chokey and that means arty is good on those maps. Recently maps such as warwind and sidestep have changed this trend and have resulting in artillery not being such a valuable unit.

The problem is the map pool, not artillery. It is doing it's job as it should.

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Sleipnir
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Post by Sleipnir »

The arty have received a range nerf for the next playtest. We will wait and see how that works out before we do anything else with them.

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FRenzy
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Post by FRenzy »

Yeah losing to mass arties camping in base is boring and infuriating ^^ I used to rage a lot against such players. Especially those who take a special faction, like Ger or France, but dont use any of their respective special units :D

But you really get the satisfaction when you manage to get some IC'ed units in there, some parabombs, or even ... a demo truck ! ^_^

Anyway, like Murto said, arties are good for chokey maps, and more generally to hold a position and camp in base. However, this is balanced by the fact that they are very slow to maneuver and low HP. So they are not a really mobile unit.

On the other hand, V2s are fast, precise, and powerful. So they are often used as a sniping unit. Allies don't have much of a sniping unit, like V2s or Yaks.

So IMO it's all about playstyle, and finding the correct counter to it (not only the counter unit, but also the counter strategy :) )

Blackened
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Post by Blackened »

I think artys carry a huge psychological factor. If you let them get to critical mass it seems like no amount of armor can get near them and a few turrets mop of the few that do. But any opponent who invests into a horde of artys is probably sacrificing in other areas. As soviets iron curtain+ flak trucks will tear through artys for free. It has a learning curve. You have to position your trucks in a cross and close enough to the front lines to get a good run and when the iron curtain is wearing off you have to retreat. It takes practice.

All of that is assuming the opponent is sitting in base. Like murto said in the open artys are very vulnerable. Yaks make quick work of them. But if you don't have yaks you can still take them out. The trick is to not smash head long into them. Again a few flak trucks on the flank can take care of the artillery, then use your army to attack.

As for allies it's is admittedly more difficult. You don't have iron curtain and hinds are slower. Instead you have to use your own arty and need better positioning. Are you england? Throw in a phase transport for vision and pick off their artys. Maybe use a longbow or two to keep their hinds back. Germany, use your better chronoshift. Shift a blob of their artys right into your defenses to get chewed up or into a group of your hinds to get slaughtered. France, use those gap generators to force them to guess where you are in the shroud.

Also don't forget no radar dome no arty.

zypres
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what is fun?

Post by zypres »

My 2 cents:

I like to play what is fun. For me being shot from the shrouds is no fun, but seeing my base run over would be more fun. The "commandoes" in CNC are like that. Just crazy how you cannot stop it, and no fun. There should also be easier to for the weak player, more newbie friendly, but not sure how to do that but still make ppl tech up.
Earlier arties blew more up, bigger explosions, and I like that, but its not helping the "shot from far away"-feeling.
Kamikaze planes are fun. Long range units not so..

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Graion Dilach
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Post by Graion Dilach »

It's planned for a good while now - just noone got it there - to reveal actors to their targets when firing. See the discussion in https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/issues/5061.
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Kwendy
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Post by Kwendy »

Arty is countered only by hightech, much better income or other arty.
And most juicy part - you barely have any risk as half of enemy's battle assets is infantry and arty decimates infantry. That means arty always pays off.
The icing on top is enemy can't engage unless he has arty or hightech (or too much assets to spare), but you are dealing damage while IC charges or something.
And cherry is - it's very simple and repetetive strategy to work with, so anyone can do it and rewarded for it.

zinc
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Post by zinc »

Murto the Ray wrote: For a long time maps for RA have been very chokey and that means arty is good on those maps. Recently maps such as warwind and sidestep have changed this trend and have resulting in artillery not being such a valuable unit.

The problem is the map pool, not artillery. It is doing it's job as it should.
Yep. If you don't like artie then just play more open maps.

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Materianer
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Post by Materianer »

(òÓ,)_\,,℠: If you want to play openra with such changes feel free to change the yaml of a map and change whatever you want to, is not so hard to make this.
You can upload the ma to resourcecenter and play it online, maybe players will like your changes.

Alex
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Post by Alex »

I'd love it if they behaved the way they do in TS, where firing from long-range will reveal their position. Maybe just have a "No Artillery" option in RA and TD?

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MustaphaTR
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Post by MustaphaTR »

I think Alex is making sense here. Making them reveal themself can be good. In fact in vanilla RA2 most units does that, it is changeable in weapons code and only exception should be snipers.

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