Concrete walls nerf / modification ?

FRenzy · Post by **FRenzy** » Wed Jul 27, 2016 4:56 pm

Currently, walls are a bit too effective IMO, for what they cost.
They are very fast to deploy in long lines, at a very low cost, and very quickly. But most important, they are hard to destroy.

Some players spam them to lock big parts of a map, and it's hard counter, unless having a big army shooting at every single piece of the wall, in order to get rid of it efficiently ...
This strategy is not bad per se, but I find the current characterisitcs of walls are a bit strong.

What do you think about it ? Should the walls be nerfed ? (health, price, build time, ...)

Or maybe they should become crushable by tank units (not only mammoths) ? So they become useless against a important tank composed army ?

anjew · Post by **anjew** » Wed Jul 27, 2016 5:18 pm

i am all for singular placement or at the least double placement with a higher cost.

They are too hard to push through in TD as nothing does good damage to walls and even then the opponent can just put the wall back up once its blown.

SoScared · Post by **SoScared** » Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:02 pm

FrameLimiter did some modded maps where he doubled the damage from rocket troopers, + nerfed health alltogether. I found the rocket trooper damage useful by itself as both faction tend to mix them in mid-game.

That + a price increase ($100 -> $200) sounds tempting.

MustaphaTR · Post by **MustaphaTR** » Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:22 pm

Currently mammoths can crush walls. TD mammoths are quicker.
There was an issue about RA mammoths' speed. Have we buffed them or they are staying same?

About concrete wall itself. I think either armor should be nerfed or some units should be buffed against them(rocket soldiers?) I'm always using concrete walls to wall my cyard, i don't want my starting eco to go even worse.

SoScared · Post by **SoScared** » Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:41 pm

Mammoth Tank speed looks to be buffed for RA 42 -> 50

https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/issues/11077

AoAGeneral1 · Post by **AoAGeneral1** » Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:16 pm

With the involvement of TD the best solution IMO is to do the following:

Keep them able to build the walls several lines in a row if wanted but have it costed. IE:

Building seven walls in a straight line costs only 100$. Change this to cost 700$.

I would also say increase the price to 150$ so making several lines would be very costly in the long run. Make the walls build timer increase.

Shorter run down change:

Walls cost 150$
Walls now cost for each placement issued.
Walls build time increased.

My biggest gripe is walls building a bit to fast and getting free walls if you build them in straight lines.

zinc · Post by **zinc** » Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:33 pm

What perhaps shouldn't be undermined, is the ability to use walls to protect against an early game MCV moved forward and team mates building turrets off it.

Maybe have a limit to the amount of wall any one player can have at any one time?

I also don't see a problem with allowing tanks to crush them.

Materianer · Post by **Materianer** » Thu Jul 28, 2016 3:31 pm

Walls are not too weak i think. Grenades, flames, artybullets or V2 are strong vs walls. If you build walls you need some time to make them and can't produce defensive structure.

This poll should be split because these TD players vote here for Ra walls maybe or vice versa.

Walls are not so often build why nerf them then?
I think they can be really usefull against baserushes.
Make them crushable by tanks and you can just delete them cause they'r useless then.

FRenzy · Post by **FRenzy** » Thu Jul 28, 2016 5:04 pm

Thanks guys for input !
I agree for the early MCV rush, maybe MCV shouldn't crush walls. Not sure about tanks too ...

@Materianer : true, but those are soviet, or artillery units.

I've come into situations as an Allied player, at a early/mid-game time, where I only have service depot, a blob of tanks and infantry, send them to the enemy base, only to find the Great Wall of China in front of me.
Until I can destroy the wall (ages), my army is blocked there, my enemy knows where I am, he can pretty do anything he wants : attack my army, attack my base, increase his base defences, ...

So in those cases, I just avoid the wall and sadly go somewhere else lol.
That's why I find it overkill, it can just block an entire (Allied) army for just no cost / no big risk (build time is not so long).

AoAGeneral1 · Post by **AoAGeneral1** » Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:23 pm

Aye Materianer. Mainly from the things ive spoken about is from TD.

SoScared · Post by **SoScared** » Fri Jul 29, 2016 5:13 am

Frame Limiter's damaga modifications looks sensible imo.

Tesla weapons - 50% down from 100%
Rocket soldier - 40% up from 20%
Flame thrower - 20% down from 50%
Flame tower - 20% down from 50%

Looks like a buff at first glance but since rocket soldiers is a mainstream army component that's gonna have the most effect vs Walls.

A modest change but it is mentioned that walls really aren't prevalent in matches so maybe not mess with the overall settings until it actually becomes a problem.

anjew · Post by **anjew** » Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:46 am

SoScared wrote: ↑ A modest change but it is mentioned that walls really aren't prevalent in matches so maybe not mess with the overall settings until it actually becomes a problem.

There is a problem, this still doesn't change just rebuilding the wall quickly. Even being delayed by just one rebuild is enough for their defences to cause mayhem

MustaphaTR · Post by **MustaphaTR** » Fri Jul 29, 2016 7:47 am

What about increasing build time without increasing cost? Then they can't replace them quickly.

SoScared · Post by **SoScared** » Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:17 am

MustaphaTR wrote: ↑What about increasing build time without increasing cost? Then they can't replace them quickly.

Sounds reasonable. Increasing build time e.g. from 3 to 6 seconds would put it more in competition with defensive structures.

Concrete walls nerf / modification ?

Concrete walls modification

Concrete walls nerf / modification ?