Orb wrote: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:41 pm
Ooo, this thread is getting too hot.
I'd like to point out that ZxGannon is not replacing AoA. Those shoes are still empty. This is simply a mod for TD. I honestly think this thread should get moved to the modding subforum and a new TD balance thread should be made.
Ideally someone who is a part of the TD community should start the discussion.
I believe the changes in the MOD are a preamble to changes ZxGanon wishes to make to the core game, if this was not the case then the tread belongs in the Mod subforum as you suggest. However it is not the case as evidenced in the title of the thread, ( Redesigning ad balancing TD). I think from the title of this thread and discussions with Zx it is abundantly clear that the intention is to implement these changes if possible.
With regards to your point about things getting too hot, I have to disagree, I think all thats been shown is some passion for the game and this is healthy, we are all adults and I don't foresee any long term damage from this open and healthy debate. ZxgGanon and I discussed some issues in game last night and it was very amicable and reasonable discussion. I think 010's posts are more of a language barrier issue than anything inflammatory being intended. I don't see censorship as a reasonable recourse in this case but of course thats up to the moderators to decide, not us.
On another note, we are all happy to see the return of AoAGeneral and this presents an opportunity for a balanced approach moving forwards. The release is new and there has been nothing but positive responses so far with regards to player numbers, given that, it is too early to be jumping to any conclusions at this stage. It is a time for observation and reflection.
Last edited by Beans on Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
ZxGanon wrote: Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:36 pm
Yeah and that´s why TD is the most played mod and everyone loves AoA. Oh man beans sometimes I dont know if you are a huge troll or actually serious.
Beans wrote: Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:09 pm
Naturally if I disagree with ZxGanon I must be a troll, I guess the only way I cannot be a troll is if agree with what you say, or be quiet altogether.
This is a very common theme and the main reason I have given up having any communication with Ganon, especially after he took time out of a FiveAces livestream to publically disparage and denigrate me for only having a different opinion.
Graion Dilach wrote: Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:49 pm
Sure, Ganon's manners ain't the best
There is a difference between having some manners and failing to debate respectfully; and maintaining integrity as a member of the OpenRA community. Id rather he didnt say please and thanks but was able to have a discourse or debate without attacking the person who puts forward the suggestion.
Graion Dilach wrote: Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:49 pm
worse people within this community - people who were eager to backstab me immediately when I wasn't doing how they wanted me to
lol yes its redesigning and Balancing TD. We dont need it. Because the game is nearly balanced. Its just some simple changes what AoA never wanted or fear. Hmm fear unit changes like giving stank heavy Armor and a bit less HP.
Why no one said it is just a Modmap? Fun for yourself.
010010 wrote: Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:15 pm
lol yes its redesigning and Balancing TD. We dont need it. Because the game is nearly balanced. Its just some simple changes what AoA never wanted or fear. Hmm fear unit changes like giving stank heavy Armor and a bit less HP.
Why no one said it is just a Modmap? Fun for yourself.
If you consider balanced that Nod is literally unplayable in 1v1 than sure I dont wanna crush your dreambubble.
Thats exactly my point, thankyou, the better skill player will have the most chance of winning, regardless of faction choice. Proving the balance is overall very good.
It is skill level and micro abilities that wins TD, not faction choice, and thats how it should be.
Beans wrote: Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:03 pm
Thats exactly my point, thankyou, the better skill player will have the most chance of winning, regardless of faction choice. Proving the balance is overall very good.
That doesn't prove anything. The better skill player will win with original RA allies against a novice player playing soviet.
Beans wrote: Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:03 pm
Thats exactly my point, thankyou, the better skill player will have the most chance of winning, regardless of faction choice. Proving the balance is overall very good.
That doesn't prove anything. The better skill player will win with original RA allies against a novice player playing soviet.
A player that is 10% better will win vast majority of games against one who is 10% worse regardless of faction. Every little victory adds up and the snowball effect that Ganon is correct about kicks in. I'm not talking about noobs vs Pro obviously.
Yeah Beans is right a stronger player will always take advantage of every little victory he can find.
But the Airstrip of Nod is the biggest issue. Your units + 12 or 14 seconds extra is a very heavy disadvantage.
In the very beginning GDI get´s a headstart in eco.
There is no way that Nod vehicles deserve such an handicap because they are "faster" or "stronger" (which is absolutely not the case and is also no reason to balance a game like this).
Factions have to be different because that makes the game exciting. But both factions shall have the same ammount of options the other one has (prime example is soviets in RA neaithe rhaving Chinooks, Husk capturing or T2 Naval units to strike on above water).
Soviets are still strong but they are:
first: very limited to the map
and second: that limits mapmaking due to fact considering Soviets not be in an absolute disadvantage in all games on that map.
In TD you kinda need to watch out that map´s are too big or Nod is gonna take even longer to get Vehicles out.
ZxGanon wrote: Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:57 am
But the Airstrip of Nod is the biggest issue. Your units + 12 or 14 seconds extra is a very heavy disadvantage.
In the very beginning GDI get´s a headstart in eco.
We recently have a conversation with Orb regarding the airstrip. If my understanding of its behaviour is right, then it's just +12 seconds for every unit produced, which means that you simply take this time into account when balancing production times. I.e. if MCV is produced in 60 seconds for GDI, then for Nod it will be 60+12 = 72 seconds. But if you make a custom MCV just for Nod with 48 seconds build time, it becomes the same 60 seconds to build, just 12 of them taken by airplane to come in. Every other unit for Nod is custom which means you don't even need to add custom buildtime unit clones, but just modify their buildtime in yaml.
The disadvantage of this will be when game speed is changed, because I suppose plane timing will still be 12 seconds, but I guess it's a compromise worth taking, and it may be fixed codewise if the plane speed is tied to game speed.
ZxGanon wrote: Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:57 am
But the Airstrip of Nod is the biggest issue. Your units + 12 or 14 seconds extra is a very heavy disadvantage.
In the very beginning GDI get´s a headstart in eco.
We recently have a conversation with Orb regarding the airstrip. If my understanding of its behaviour is right, then it's just +12 seconds for every unit produced, which means that you simply take this time into account when balancing production times. I.e. if MCV is produced in 60 seconds for GDI, then for Nod it will be 60+12 = 72 seconds. But if you make a custom MCV just for Nod with 48 seconds build time, it becomes the same 60 seconds to build, just 12 of them taken by airplane to come in. Every other unit for Nod is custom which means you don't even need to add custom buildtime unit clones, but just modify their buildtime in yaml.
The disadvantage of this will be when game speed is changed, because I suppose plane timing will still be 12 seconds, but I guess it's a compromise worth taking, and it may be fixed codewise if the plane speed is tied to game speed.
Yeah but you cant eliminate the delay 100% because Airstrips are unblockable while GDI factory can be stopped from producing.
Thats why a delay reduction to 3-4 seconds might be nice.
