Redesigning and Balancing TD

[010010]

OpenRA is made for reworking the old Westwoodgames. That means making the same with an open source engine. You are making EA CnC Balancing. What works only when you have modern tech upgrades and some different factions more.
Thois is just oldschool original RTS. Means different unit play. Real micro play by moving it.

Better you just change simple AoA Balancing thinks. All what he does were right. But he made Mammoth Counter with chems and Stanks. Will work when stank is finaly Heavy Aromor type and have -30HP.
Differents between ltanks and mtanks is also to big. On Tech 2 GDI Never have to make Rocket Soldiers. Make ltanks and mtanks different with moving HP and Damage but still slightly even. Means both sides have to make Inf as Support.
Next is Fun. Bikes have to much HP. When you spam to much from it. Game is Over in many ways. Split it and attack from two sides. Run straigth into the Base and kill important Buildings. Use it as Hugh Help to kill Tanks. With 80HP they are more squishy but still usefull. You can also give them one turn point more.
After thos changes the game is much better changed and not new Spam experience. Also still real CnC and not dumb Shooting Gallery.

[netnazgul]

@010010 so you want it to be the same as original (which was nowhere near being balanced and unplayable in multiplayer), then you say that AoA's balancing was correct (even though it's nothing like the original same as Ganon's), and then suggest a bunch of stuff that doesn't follow neither original nor AoA's balance...

[Sleipnir]

AoA spent the last couple of years arguing for the engineer change, but agreed to defer it until the engine code was fixed (it will be for the next release), and there was some kind of consensus in the community for adopting it (which won't be possible until at least the next playtest + test maps + playtesting + some kind of miracle).

[Beans]

AoA spent the last couple of years arguing for the engineer change, but agreed to defer it until the engine code was fixed (it will be for the next release), and there was some kind of consensus in the community for adopting it (which won't be possible until at least the next playtest + test maps + playtesting + some kind of miracle).

This was one area I disagree with AoA, I think the engineer change is a big mistake for reasons I stated above, I think on the whole though AoA generally gets it closer than anyone else with good balancing, the main thing is he doesnt rush it. Obviously all balance changes are open to a certain level of subjectivity resulting in differences of opinion and no technical 'perfect' balance.

[ZxGanon]

AoA spent the last couple of years arguing for the engineer change, but agreed to defer it until the engine code was fixed (it will be for the next release), and there was some kind of consensus in the community for adopting it (which won't be possible until at least the next playtest + test maps + playtesting + some kind of miracle).

This was one area I disagree with AoA, I think the engineer change is a big mistake for reasons I stated above, I think on the whole though AoA generally gets it closer than anyone else with good balancing, the main thing is he doesnt rush it. Obviously all balance changes are open to a certain level of subjectivity resulting in differences of opinion and no technical 'perfect' balance.

Yeah and that´s why TD is the most played mod and everyone loves AoA. Oh man beans sometimes I dont know if you are a huge troll or actually serious.

[Beans]

Naturally if I disagree with ZxGanon I must be a troll, I guess the only way I cannot be a troll is if agree with what you say, or be quiet altogether.

As I pointed out this weekend we have several games going all at the same time, I've not seen those kind of numbers for years, so this release must take some credit for that, and unless I am mistaken those were AoA change mostly, with help from the community. So credit where credits due.

If you want me to change my mind you have to convince me, not throw insults and hope for compliance,that doesnt work on everyone you know Zx. . I also wont take part in any AoA hate campaign, or any campaign against anyone for that matter. AoA has put a hell of a lot of work into TD over the years and some of us wont forget that so easily. If I get the feeling there's some kind of politics going on I will challenge it. You were very friendly with AoA until he didnt follow your ideas, then you turned on him as fast as the eye can see. I don't like how that smells.

[AoAGeneral1]

There are a lot of changes in this mod. Do you have replays of the games played in the mod versions?

[Beans]

There are a lot of changes in this mod. Do you have replays of the games played in the mod versions?

Welcome back AoAgeneral, I'm not aware of any of the maps being played voluntarily, e.g not being hosted by the creator, however surely there must be at least a couple of replays out there? I myself think there are far too many changes at once to be able to properly test it and diagnose things, just a guessing game to know whats causing what. Sculpting tools needed, not sledgehammer.

[ZxGanon]

There are good ammount of teamgames recorded, But on 1.3 and not with 1.4 so we gotta gather some till than.

I havent modded enough teamgame maps since the small TD community now downgraded completely to a teamgame only lobby.

[Beans]

There are good ammount of teamgames recorded, But on 1.3 and not with 1.4 so we gotta gather some till than.

I havent modded enough teamgame maps since the small TD community now downgraded completely to a teamgame only lobby.

This is a bogus and manipulative comment, I don't know when you first came to TD but its always been mostly team games, thats what most people like. There are some players that play 1v1 whenever they want to and thats fine for them. In RA its mostly team games also and I would suggest its a similar ratio. Also, we now have more players than ever over the last 6 years.


You cant just keep manipulating reality to suit your position ZXGanon, that aside I'm sure we will all happily play your mods if you calm down with the authoritarian approach & insults.

[010010]

Dont see any chance for good gameplay when you cant comment correct. You wasted CD and SP. Now you are starting to invect TD with your bad super spam balance. OpenRA is an Open Source Game with still old CnC Players. They are playing CnCNet or OpenRA. And you are not working on the right point. The Point is still making an open source version from the old Westwood games. With sligtly changes. Not making old Westwood RTS with EA CnC Balancing.

Stop your childish challenge agains evreyone. You are not important enough in this world.

[Sleipnir]

Please be mindful of the forum rules. There are many ways to disagree with someone without being abusive or agressive.

[010010]

Yes but not with a guy who is calling you 2 years an idiot or faggot in many ways. And starting to try the 3rd game to make it bad. I am not alone with my thinks. But most from the others are long time gone. Because they have not longer fun with playing OpenRA.

[Graion Dilach]

You wasted CD and SP.

Ganon played a major reason why CD had a wave of activity and why we've got an SP released. Have you seen the CD before Ganon? Do you have any idea how the CD before Ganon played or aimed to be? For starters, it wanted to have 10 tech levels (cut down to 5 in the end) which would have started from stone age to space age pretty much, with every second tier introducing a unit taking over an underling's entire functionality.

Do remember that I joined to CD before it restarted on OpenRA. I should still have the last TS internal somewhere around, where are only two tiers out of those aforementioned 10 implemented.

It wasn't Ganon what killed CD, but the fact that Astor dropped out with promises which ultimately turned out to be not happening and noone else felt to take the mantle due to all those faction planning without proper artwork when the fallout happened. That's why the Ganon powertrio (with Void and jrb) moved over to SP - because Nolt was around and had everything excluding gameplay by that point - he even gave up on SP by then, due to seeing it complete, but unplayable and knew he can't get it kickstarted without outside help.

Sure, Ganon's manners ain't the best and he is quite blunt but he has some working ideas about gameplay and I haven't really seen much issues with how they work. If you can explain your gameplay issues on the meta level reasonably, he will listen.

I can tell you worse people within this community - people who were eager to backstab me immediately when I wasn't doing how they wanted me to and who made me realize that working for this project was my biggest mistake in my entire life. I would gladly take Ganon over them.

[Orb]

Ooo, this thread is getting too hot.

I'd like to point out that ZxGannon is not replacing AoA. Those shoes are still empty. This is simply a mod for TD. I honestly think this thread should get moved to the modding subforum and a new TD balance thread should be made.

Ideally someone who is a part of the TD community should start the discussion.