server for newbie, or rating on online game

stop intimidation, improving game for newbie, rating players to be able to be competitive

Discussion about the game and its default mods.
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Ramones1982
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:17 pm

server for newbie, or rating on online game

Post by Ramones1982 »

Dear Friends,


I'm a new player here since less than a month. Lot of things have change since when I used to play back in the 90's against friends and the gameplay have totally increase. Lot of players are great and use different strategies (that is great). But for newcomers it's hard to find a match against people of the same skills or newbie. Yes I've increase my skill but I'm not there yet to be competitive against advanced one.


I've played yesterdays with advanced players and some of those advanced teammate have been rude because I've loose my construction yard by a sneaky engineer. They treat me of being retarded and having a small genital ... Yes I know some people are totally jerk , but is it possible to be able to join people of the same skill by having specific server or having an online classification so it might be less possible to join too competitive players who's bitching against people ?

As a newcomer I didn't feel accepted in that community, some players have been correct with me, but I saw lot of lack of respect and I think it's supposed to be a game not a source of conflict. Some of newcomers have been kick or banned from server just because they was new. If there is nothing it's done, no more newcomer will try to join that community and that game will simply died.


I was more than excited to see their actually some people who take that old classic back and increase some feature, but that good thing is more now a nightmare.


Personally, I don't want to play against online player no more until their is changes on the rating of player or a better control of the trash talks and intimidation. I don't wanna frustrated team mate to no to be has good as their are or being ruded by too competitive person.


with best regards

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zypres1
Posts: 271
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:22 pm

Re: server for newbie, or rating on online game

Post by zypres1 »

That will take a lot of work to implement.

Try to use Newbies only servers, and also tell all in lobby that you are not good. We have all been there...

Also spec a few matches to learn...

Ramones1982
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:17 pm

Re: server for newbie, or rating on online game

Post by Ramones1982 »

Dear Zypres,

I've already told few times my skill level but it doesn't matter ...


I will wait until the improvement, if it's possible of course. Meanwhile, I won't play multiplayer match and won't recommend that community to friends who got children who might interested in that kind of game.

Everybody need to start somewhere but some "smart" persone doesn't seems to understand that fact



with bes regards

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Punsho
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:56 pm
Location: Lithuania

Re: server for newbie, or rating on online game

Post by Punsho »

I can recommend a few things, first is to try an learn a build order. Macro in ora ra is fairly simple and straight forward, once you get that going you will do much better ingame. I can recommend openra academy discord for specifics, it's a welcoming environment.

And about toxicity, I'm not sure how bad the situation is right now. I know most people are fairly tolerant and will balance teams to account for you. But, there are bad actors around yeah. Usually how I see it is, people give up once they find that their teammate is a noob, or after losing they blame the loss on the newbie in their team. I don't think that behaviour is very toxic, though it's definitely not welcoming. People feel salty after loosing, I think it's natural. If you don't respond to that with your own toxicity it will most likely be the end of it.

abcdefg30
Posts: 416
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:00 pm

Re: server for newbie, or rating on online game

Post by abcdefg30 »

Sadly there isn't really much we can do. (A ranking system isn't feasible at this point.) Adding to the previous suggestions, you can try playing on servers that only allow logged-in users to join and then kick people who misbehaved in the past.

Ramones1982
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:17 pm

Re: server for newbie, or rating on online game

Post by Ramones1982 »

Thanks Punsho and abcdefg30 for your reply,


I will join the openRa academy for sure !!! I've already used since 2 weeks ago the 2 ref opening. For smaller maps with almost ore and versus less players then 3, the strategy is absolutely different. Some players are inventive and goes out of no where for flank attack and engineer sneak to stole construction yard ... so sometimes strategy must be adapted.


For the toxicity, it's obviously present ... Some players who admin the game will kick new players without notice ... I don't things it's the greatest behaviour ... I mean they should say, we want a more advanced opponent / you can watch the game to understand new strategy. For balance team ... it's quite interesting, because their is no rating for players, so what happened in lot of game that I've played, best players play with the best so they will absolutely win. That's why a simple rating (not overall, just maybe something that could make easier to choose team, a self survey or a little survey) could make openRA choose for the host the fairest team by having something to be having a reference...


Personally I prefer to loose and learned something than win a games without challenge. What is the point to play something without gain ? Some people are not the same opinion as me. Is there anyway to add an option to remove the "rage quit" behaviour ... I mean lot of player left the game thinking they will absolutely been defeat but sometimes the teammate might wanna continue the battle ... so I was wondering if it could be a possibility to have an option for no surrender ??? I mean the player could left the game but an AI should take the place instead of destroying the whole base or if the player quit or been disconnected, nothings happens so the teammate are doomed. Lot of time it take a while to have everybody's ready ... when starting the game, some quit within the 5 first minutes and it's a huge advantage for the opponents. Maybe having something that could help openRA choose wich kind of AI should take the place of the one who left. If the self rating of the player is advanced, the rush AI might be the one who should take the place of the human player and the same principle for other kind of player.

Also, I don't know if there is possible to have moderator or something like that to help stopping bad conducts. I mean, I saw people in the chat having racism behaviour ... I don't think that thing is must be tolerate anywhere, where ever you live. Some player are using the lobby chat for bad sexual behaviour ... that's something that I was really surprised. Maybe some word must be censored like other game ... I really don't know


I know there is no way to stop people being idiot or trolling around but with some discouragement, some will quit doing those kind of attitude.


SOme people switch nickname ... in the lobby, it happened to have 2 times the same nickname, so it might be frustrating to kick or ban someone who catfish another one. It might be important that registered user kept their own nickname so it might be less confusing for targeting skill, bad behavior one.


with best regards

RobLoweEscobar
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:25 pm
Location: USA

Re: server for newbie, or rating on online game

Post by RobLoweEscobar »

You ran into a guy that is apparently known for being an ass, and unfortunately ended up on his team (and mine!). I've definitely gotten some abuse myself for performing poorly, which is somewhat understandable as its very frustrating to be doing well in a team game but have no hope of winning because your teammates are doing nothing. Personally I've resolved to keep playing as many matches as possible, watch my replays, and just generally keep plugging away until I can play well in most matches. It's not going to be easy since the playerbase in this game are generally very skilled players with a lot of experience.

I will say I really do not understand what veteran players stand to gain from pushing newbies out...The playerbase is already very small.

MR C
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:40 pm

Re: server for newbie, or rating on online game

Post by MR C »

Ramones you made my day there. I've so far played 90 games in about 4 weeks and in single games I've lost everyone. I've won one 4 player one as 2 quit. You really should not get upset.

What is really funny is I think it was me that took your base by an engineer out of a ranger and then tried to hang on with war factory as long. Of course your team mates were annoyed as they had done well and spent time building their bases. I get stick sometimes too but as does everyone it's a war game it's not played by fairies.

Has happened to me before having my base taken by an engineer. You just have to think that was clever and be ready for it next time.

I've found the community really helpful. I've had people watch my games think it was Airport and he offered me tips as I'm playing.I now know how to use so many more controls now. I have thought about my start more. I got to watch XHU one night as a spectator to see how he expanded he is a great example. One guy was even giving me tips while I was playing on chat while I was playing. I've found the replay button too now to watch the battles this helps you see what others did against you. They also recommended watching 5 Aces so I watched two of his videos. I've got better using the f keys and always moving with a held down so the guys attack units they come across. Still got so much more to learn. I've started putting my name as MR C - Low Ability so people know what they are up against. As they want battles against similar players. I've got a few tricks I've been practicing that I'm looking forward to beating some others with too. There are so many selection keys to learn. Will get there. But am stopped today as keep getting an error today. with my red alert.exe file not being able to be written when I tried to reinstall the game. So am a bit stuck today so can't play. If you see me challenge me to a game. DOn't be put off it's an amazing game.

Ramones1982
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:17 pm

Re: server for newbie, or rating on online game

Post by Ramones1982 »

Thanks MR C for you reply


Yes XHU, he is a real gentlemen ... some players are real awesome gentlemen, I agree with you with that. Some player have noob in their names but obviously are advanced player who use the word noob or newbie as a joke.

Yes some few people want to help each others but I wish their will be more of those. In my POV openRA is friendly "war" game ... I mean fun and strategy should be the principle purpose of that game, not hate and intimidation.

Yes one advanced player watch once one of my battle to let me comments to see what was wrong with my play and it's a nice way to help each other. Of course their is great guys and girl but in my eyes I saw more of haters then real gamers.


For the F keys ... I knew the A key but not the F one ... I will try that shortcut in my next game.


Also I was a player of red alert in the 90's so there is some game improvement that I was not aware off. Example, the engineer in a ranger .. in my old memory, you can't have any troop in a ranger, only in an APC ... I found out that it have been change or maybe my memory went wrong on that. The soviet have more difference then the past. In the old game the only difference between Russia and Ukraine was the cost of unit (Russia was cheaper) and the life bar (but Ukraine had more life energy to there troop).


I'm totally in favour of what you said about the engineer sneak ... I used to have a better defence in my base but some said it was a huge mistake and I'm loosing cash in defence instead of offence ... so I might try a better less expensive way to avoid fast unit who carry troops or finding a way to make less vulnerable my base. I take all my mistake in consideration to become a more effective player.


Why that I'm so concern about the bad talking stuff it's the one who insult me own 4 servers ... That particular game that I'm referencing too, I wanted to watch but somebody offered me to play instead of being a spectator ... they needed one more player to start the game, so I did took the empty seat. If it was a "nobody" who insult me, I didn't care or even bother with him but for a server owner ... I found it more difficult like if openRA tolerate that somebody who is rude to actively participated in the community. Yes openRa can't do the cops for the misconduct but having a rude person who is sharing virtual space, I'm kinda stupefy and thinks that's a non sense. Also one players love to say the N word to insult others ... I'm not a US citizen but there is lot of issue presently in the world with racism ... I think they might be something is done for removing pejorative words.

MR C, you are the kind of people that I admired ... I hope the taste of going back online will come back some days. But presently I'm kinda frustrated by the misconduct of some and the racism word used by some

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anjew
Posts: 543
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 4:16 am

Re: server for newbie, or rating on online game

Post by anjew »

Ramones1982 wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:56 pm
Also I was a player of red alert in the 90's so there is some game improvement that I was not aware off. Example, the engineer in a ranger .. in my old memory, you can't have any troop in a ranger, only in an APC ... I found out that it have been change or maybe my memory went wrong on that. The soviet have more difference then the past. In the old game the only difference between Russia and Ukraine was the cost of unit (Russia was cheaper) and the life bar (but Ukraine had more life energy to there troop).
It's best to not try to compare the originals to OpenRA. The games play out very differently and there are quite a few too many changes to start listing them here. OpenRA's current gameplay is the culmination of over a decade of dedicated developers and players changes. I feel it plays out much better this way but to each their own.

Ramones1982 wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:56 pm
Why that I'm so concern about the bad talking stuff it's the one who insult me own 4 servers ... That particular game that I'm referencing too, I wanted to watch but somebody offered me to play instead of being a spectator ... they needed one more player to start the game, so I did took the empty seat. If it was a "nobody" who insult me, I didn't care or even bother with him but for a server owner ...
Are you sure they were the owner of the servers and not just the admin of the match? And not someone attempting to impersonate a server owner? As it stands, the first person to join a server has more power than a server owner. In fact, if a server owner needs to disconnect a player possibly attempting to DDoS a server with an exploit, they need to use a netstat tool due to the lack of logs and exacerbated by the unnecessary anonymization on IP's. Also, to be honest, being an actual server owner doesnt mean much as anyone is able to host an OpenRA server.

Ramones1982 wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:59 pm
Also, I don't know if there is possible to have moderator or something like that to help stopping bad conducts.
There is an open issue to implement something similar at a server level (https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/issues/17659) because as I stated, right now the server owner has close to little control over the actual server. There was a 3rd party system that existed for server management however I dont know if there is any work on something similiar

Ramones1982 wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:59 pm
I know there is no way to stop people being idiot or trolling around but with some discouragement, some will quit doing those kind of attitude.
Im not 100% sure but I dont see an issue if giving server owners the option to implement a list of censored words. It should be defined by the server owner though.

Ramones1982 wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:59 pm
SOme people switch nickname ... in the lobby, it happened to have 2 times the same nickname, so it might be frustrating to kick or ban someone who catfish another one. It might be important that registered user kept their own nickname so it might be less confusing for targeting skill, bad behavior one.
Not sure if you know but if you mouse over a registered user it actually displays their forum name. The name in-game is not intended to be personal identifier, that is the intention of the registration system

Ramones1982
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:17 pm

Re: server for newbie, or rating on online game

Post by Ramones1982 »

Dear anjew,

Maybe it was someone who impersonate the real 4 servers owner ... but I can't tell. It's the same nickname that I saw used twice in a single game ... so it might be probable. It's kinda my point to always use the same nickname ... so catfish won't be able to steal identity and maybe it will be easier to control undesirable people in a game.


Also, I really agree OpenRA seems to gave new possibilities to new strategy and a more fair play then the old 90's game ... my point is to be also patient to people to adjust to the new game instead of being rude. OpenRA is my salute to my C&C Red Alert starvation ... So yes, I really admire to every people who made it possible to evolve that game in that one.

I didn't know that it was the responsibility to each server owner to have a censorship policy / software or not ... now I'm aware. I thought it was a kind of partnership between the developers and the programmer so now I understand the actual situation.

I've also read your post about the server level ... I totally approved what you have proposed. I think it might increase the attitude of some players when someone with authority is there.


thanks again for your reply

RobLoweEscobar
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:25 pm
Location: USA

Re: server for newbie, or rating on online game

Post by RobLoweEscobar »

Ramones,

Anyone can run a dedicated server and be listed in the server browser. For example, even I have one and I'm a giant idiot!

Ramones1982
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:17 pm

Re: server for newbie, or rating on online game

Post by Ramones1982 »

You made me laugh RobLoweEscobar !!!

You're also a great player !!!!

Cya maybe somedays

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