Redalet Mig with air to air capability

Discussion about the game and its default mods.
dzine
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Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:13 am

Redalet Mig with air to air capability

Post by dzine »

Redalet Mig with air to air capability

I, like many other players, were disapointed that this wasnt enabled in the original game. You could enable it by tweaking the rules.ini file

Migs are currently underused, there key role in wartime is an air superiority fighter / interceptor.

Its a 2 minute tweak, and its a natural and obvious improvement.

..and best of all dogfighting in multiplayer, cool as a cat :P


Any objections ? i cant realy think of any...im kind of surprised that this tweak wasnt one of the very first units tweaks to be done! There have been quite a few tweaks to units stats and ownership. Hind soviet helicopter now allied ??? Lonbow helicopter now has air to air but the Mig still doesn't !!! Most of the tweaks have been good BUT there are a few that just seem to fly in the face of common sense, what gives ?

scorp
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Post by scorp »

I take it the openRa devs made the changes you mention simply for balancing reasons for powergamers. Common sense had probably not very much to do with it.

That said, Anti-Air capable Migs would only make sense, im my view, if a similar air-unit would be available to the allied faction as well.


the reason is that for airborne units even more than for ground units, speed is so essential that halfway-effective airborne AA-capable units would probably render most other aircraft obsolete.


personally, i'm starting to think that fast airborne units should be passive support powers.

Tactical Air-to-Air and Air-to-Ground combat can be played out with a bigger variety of choppers (different Speed, armament, passenger capacity etc.)

strategic airborne attacks (sniping buildings) can equally be done with passive support airplanes (as shown by the Ukraine parabombs)

abcdefg30
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Post by abcdefg30 »


PersianImmortal
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Post by PersianImmortal »

I've suggested this a thousand times
Soviet late game blows they need something like this to deal with hind spam

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hamb
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Post by hamb »

Will be experimenting with this (and welcome anyone else who wants to give it a shot)

We didn't do it in the past because migs used to be *the* lategame unit. I don't think anyone was interested in making them stronger, and longbows had to be able to stand up to them. The current balance has fallen behind so it's probably time to take a closer look at this.

PersianImmortal
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Post by PersianImmortal »

hamb wrote: Will be experimenting with this (and welcome anyone else who wants to give it a shot)

We didn't do it in the past because migs used to be *the* lategame unit. I don't think anyone was interested in making them stronger, and longbows had to be able to stand up to them. The current balance has fallen behind so it's probably time to take a closer look at this.
Yep lol. I remember nuke'm's infamous mig squadrons. But now migs are so lack luster.

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hamb
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Post by hamb »

I'm sure you remember planes used to stack on top of each other, which would have made this pretty crappy. Should be okay now.

xnaquada
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Post by xnaquada »

Somewhat related...

MiGs need to be WAYYY better for their current price point, especially given the tech-requirements and how good a YAK is.

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hamb
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Post by hamb »

Is noted, something we need to make better. Also similar story for longbow's air->ground.

scorp
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Post by scorp »

there's lots of room for experimentstion i think. But right now, players really seem to prefer Yaks over Migs.

possible ways to make MIGs more effective regardless of AA capability:

- damage against unit types increase
- spread damage of rockets increase
- number of rockets fired per burst increase with or without higher ammo capacity
- antirocket countermeasures (this would be OP, likely)
- armour type, hit points, speed, etc.

possible ways to make Longbows more effective:

- damage against unit types increase
- spread damage of rockets increase
- number of rockets fired per burst increase with or without higher ammo capacity
- armour type, hit points, speed, etc.


i'm against lowering prices for these two nerfed units. Players should have two approaches, to use cost-effective spammable units like arty and flak trucks but also expensive but effective Units like Migs, Mammoths, Longbows etc.

PersianImmortal
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Post by PersianImmortal »

hamb wrote: Is noted, something we need to make better. Also similar story for longbow's air->ground.
Seconded. Longbows need some love too.

klaas
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Post by klaas »

MIGs still suck in the current playtest. Something needs to be done here before the release. Air to air seems like a simple way to give them at least some use against late game Hind squadrons.

penev
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Post by penev »

It has been discussed and migs will get some attention as soon as @hamb is able to.

There won't be any more ad-hoc balance changes for this release, however. That ship sailed a while ago, sorry. We can't risk breaking the balance this close to a release. If we keep doing that we may never release.

PersianImmortal
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Post by PersianImmortal »

Just add it and give them similar damage to longbows for now. MiGs are all around terrible. Worst comes to worst its nerfed next playtest just like shock troopers.

klaas
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Post by klaas »

I agree with Persian here, air to air capabilities are not going to make MIGs overpowered, because your base is always on the ground anyway.

Also, the MIG is one of the coolest units (visually), and it has been useless way to long. I don't think they were overpowered when Nukem used them in the past. He was just good at micromanaging them, but I've tried to copy his style back then and failed miserably. It did take quite a bit of skill to use them like he did.

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