The ERCC (BETA) Refinery by Widow and FRenzy (A logical replacement)

Discussion about the game and its default mods.
N/a
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The ERCC (BETA) Refinery by Widow and FRenzy (A logical replacement)

Post by N/a » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:44 pm

With many iterations of the of the symmetrical refinery and with a lot of feedback on those mods. Widow And FRenzy have created what I think is the logical replacement for the default refinery.

Open League has adopted the latest ERCC (BETA) Refinery and from the first event, it seems to be tremendously effective, the most significant point of contention with previous models is that they looked too different, not legit.

Nobody objected to the functionality of these previous attempts, however continuity was the biggest issue and what a surprise it was to me that with this latest version not only is this issue resolved, some players did not even notice the difference. It is that good looking. Adding to that the functionality has improved further as well.

Its almost a 'no brainer' to put a recommendation forward for integrating the final version of the ERCC Refinery into release. Of course its still early and we can use this thread for further discussions on it and I look forward to those discussions.

Widow said to me that he was skeptical that even now after such efforts that it would go much further than mod maps but I reminded him that OpenRA has such innovations as the flak truck which is definitely out of the ordinary for the original red alert, and this contribution looks 95% the same as the default ref, but with greatly increased functionality.

I will leave a link to a map that has adopted the ERCC (BETA) Refinery below and I would also encourage you to follow Open League events, the next and main one being January 5th Saturday 6pm UTC Weekend Warrior which will demonstrate the ERCC in a tough competitive setting.




Give Feedback to Widow And FRenzy, let them know what you think, I'd like to say thanks for the effort more than anything :)




Thank you.


https://resource.openra.net/maps/30221/
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.1
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Re: The ERCC (BETA) Refinery by Widow and FRenzy (A logical replacement)

Post by .1 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:01 pm

Agree with Widow, Its nice, but we all have to remember that the devs intention is to created a modernized version of C&C, and they want to balance innovation while keeping the classic nature. While i don't see it making it into the core, its something we can consider for competitive events, such as RAGL.

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netnazgul
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Re: The ERCC (BETA) Refinery by Widow and FRenzy (A logical replacement)

Post by netnazgul » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:35 pm

What's the access shape of it now? I suppose some parts are still not passable, but now it's not really obvious anymore.

N/a
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Re: The ERCC (BETA) Refinery by Widow and FRenzy (A logical replacement)

Post by N/a » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:43 pm

00X
000
x00 @netnazgul


I'm thinking corner mines etc gotta get a new perspective on mapmaking I guess :P

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FRenzy
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Re: The ERCC (BETA) Refinery by Widow and FRenzy (A logical replacement)

Post by FRenzy » Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:37 pm

Cheers N/a for the post and pushing this forward !

NW patches will be very, very slightly at advantage from SW patches for instance.
But it will be so minimal that it won't really matter, and really mapmakers won't have to think of it IMO.

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Graion Dilach
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Re: The ERCC (BETA) Refinery by Widow and FRenzy (A logical replacement)

Post by Graion Dilach » Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:49 pm

You should still smoothen out the top edge where you've cut it. It looks really rough.

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dragunoff
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Re: The ERCC (BETA) Refinery by Widow and FRenzy (A logical replacement)

Post by dragunoff » Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:19 am

It looks pretty good (except the rough edge Graion already mentioned). Could you also put the original up for a side-by-side comparison?

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Re: The ERCC (BETA) Refinery by Widow and FRenzy (A logical replacement)

Post by Widow » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:16 pm

Re: The ERCC (BETA) Refinery by Widow and FRenzy (A logical replacement)
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Post by Widow » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:14 pm

@dragenuff and @graion

the rough edge is because its zoomed in :) look at the harvester

this is the original edge:
Screen Shot 2019-01-04 at 12.56.28.png
Screen Shot 2019-01-04 at 12.56.28.png (11.47 KiB) Viewed 1547 times
the top part is identical the the original...

anyway its still Beta we only made a ready beta version because N/a wanted to have it in his turny, so there are pixel mistakes other places that will get fixed.

Original:
Screen Shot 2019-01-04 at 13.03.38.png
Screen Shot 2019-01-04 at 13.03.38.png (35.1 KiB) Viewed 1547 times
ERCC (BETA) :
Screen Shot 2019-01-04 at 13.04.33.png
Screen Shot 2019-01-04 at 13.04.33.png (50.95 KiB) Viewed 1547 times
best Widow

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Graion Dilach
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Re: The ERCC (BETA) Refinery by Widow and FRenzy (A logical replacement)

Post by Graion Dilach » Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:27 pm

No, the rough edge is because it is a rough edge. I made a comparison image, compare the orange boxes.
edges.png
edges.png (47.43 KiB) Viewed 1528 times
On the right, where you've cut it, the edge is not antialiased to grey. That should be fixed for sure.

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Re: The ERCC (BETA) Refinery by Widow and FRenzy (A logical replacement)

Post by Widow » Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:25 pm

i thought you ment the actual top edge that meets the grass.. as said there a pixel mistakes several places.. this is Beta and we only rushed this beta release because N/a insisted on using it from the start of his turny. so thanks, but for future comments on this thread pixel mistakes we are aware of.. so more comments to overall look. proportions etc. and functionality. and if it could work as a replacement would be cool. then we can talk about pixels overall polish etc.. when its out of Beta

best Widow

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Clockwork
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Re: The ERCC (BETA) Refinery by Widow and FRenzy (A logical replacement)

Post by Clockwork » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:29 pm

This is a perfect example of modernising the old CnC with logical and new features. The faster this is into the game, the better!

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Re: The ERCC (BETA) Refinery by Widow and FRenzy (A logical replacement)

Post by Printer » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:43 pm

Played a match yesturday with this ref. It's like a cool breeze in the desert just before an oasis with palm trees. (I like it)

here's more impressions:
+ 3x3 placement is also kinda nice because no more is that (1) offending tile there
+++ harvesters access it almost any angle
- almost any angle (there's only one top right tile they can't drive through so a literally it's not from 0-45 degrees and then 60-360)
- some transparency of vehicles going through the spite does make it look a bit strange, but thats better than them being unseen
+ still can be blocked by light tanks as the must drop ore off at the regular spot
+ the new accessible tiles create more waiting areas for a harvester (might help fix the harvester dancing bug)

Image

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Re: The ERCC (BETA) Refinery by Widow and FRenzy (A logical replacement)

Post by camundahl » Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:18 pm

I think this absolutely should make it into the Release versions.

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Re: The ERCC (BETA) Refinery by Widow and FRenzy (A logical replacement)

Post by Widow » Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:37 pm

Thanks Happy, Printer, and Camundahl for the nice words im happy you like it.

@Printer

Im going to try not to be to technical here.. but the footprint is not as sugested

==X
=O=
===

its

==X
=O=
X==

this might seem unbalanced when you first look at it because its isn't symmetrical. but the thing is that Openra engine as it is now. only supports 1 docking angle, this dosent create any problems with 1 harvester on 1 ref harvesting right or left, because it will have to turn regardless to get back out and harvest.. so same mining speed. however it does create a difference with multiple harvesters because, if a second harvester tries to come in when a harvester is docking. the docking harvester will in the 1st case only turn 90 degrees to get out.. where the other way it would also turn 90 plus the 180 it already did.. so that create slight imbalance (minimal) so what we actually discovered was, that our old:

X=X
=O=
X=X

footprint was actually affected a bit by this on multiple (many) harvesters on 1 ref.. so what we did with this ref is to flip the docking angle 180 to balance it out (so its fits the X's on the new footprint) which result in the new footprint being more balanced then the old 100% symmetrical one.. in our automated eco test its seem to have no differences any more, regardless of what angle you are harvesting from now... and if there is any it wouldn't be more then the difference between harvesting left or right on the original ref is now:

..X
XXX
XXX
XO=

Ok, this was as short as i could make it :D hope it makes some sense

O is Dock

best

Widow
Last edited by Widow on Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:02 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: The ERCC (BETA) Refinery by Widow and FRenzy (A logical replacement)

Post by Widow » Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:40 pm

oh yeah. and the transparency effects are definitely not done.. (i agree) couldn't make them done in time for the turny. the plan is to make it a slight gradient so it dosent looks so sudden. transparent/not

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