Blocking a war factory or ore refinery

Discussion about the game and its default mods.
PersianImmortal
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Post by PersianImmortal »

Literally nothing wrong with this. They're fixing the husk issue in respect to refineries next release.

zoidyberg
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Post by zoidyberg »

Literally?

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Murto the Ray
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Post by Murto the Ray »

zoidyberg wrote: Insanely time and resource efficient tactics have no place in a well-balanced game.
They do, as long as they have a risk to them

zoidyberg
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Post by zoidyberg »

If a tactic is insanely time and resource efficient, then said tactic needs to be insanely risky to be included in a balanced game.

I should not able to shut down your production lines during an attack by sacrificing a few tanks. Tanks should not be produced to block off an enemy war factory.

If an enemy husk in front of a war factory vanished within 5 seconds, then it would be a legit tactic.

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Murto the Ray
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Post by Murto the Ray »

It is already risky. The reason why isn't very clear though so ill try my best to explain it.

Lets take two high level players who are equal, they use the same strategies except one decides to go for a block with a light tank. The players have both used a generic build order (pp,bar,ref,wf, pp,ref or pp,bar,ref,pp,wf,ref). Because the player that did not go for a light tank block got some infantry instead, once he detected the light tanks he can move his inf into it's path and take it out before it does damage; even if it does manage to block a refinery then he can send his harvesters to his other one. With good macro you shouldn't have only a single ref by the time a light tank gets to you unless you are absurdly close to the other player. Now that that threat has been dealt with the player who did not go for a block has some infantry and his opponent has nothing from that 700 he spent to get that light tank. for that amount of resources he could have had a defensive structure or an early ranger or something more useful; maybe even spent the time building a harvester instead like his opponent did. If the players continue to play then the player who did not go for a block should win as long as they do everything else equally.

An early light tank isn't too different from grenadiers. Grenadiers can do more damage than a light tank, come out earlier but at the same time cost 100 more. Both are a risk and can be stopped by appropriate counters.

zoidyberg
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Post by zoidyberg »

I mostly agree with you and I think we're approaching this from different angles and comparing different units. You're talking how to counter tactics while talking I'm about removing unintended consequences. When I see a player producing a unit for the sole purpose of blocking production, it's a red flag. Allied Spies already do this...

I take issue with the a Soviet player's ability to position a heavy tank husk in front of a war factory to block off production for at least 35 seconds. If you can manage to ever so slowly roll a mammoth tank in front of a war factory, that impressive. Zipping a heavy tank in is easier and can be done earlier in the game.

Allied players do not have the means to always knock out a rolling tank before it reaches a factory. Ergo, the heavy tank can be more effective as a kamikaze than as a tank.

To be fair, I asked the player if he was intentionally blocking my factory and he did not respond. Draw your own conclusions...

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Murto the Ray
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Post by Murto the Ray »

You can force fire husks to destroy them; they are only really effective blocking refineries at the moment as you can destroy them when in front of other production facilities.

zoidyberg
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Post by zoidyberg »

Murto the Ray wrote: You can force fire husks to destroy them
I did know this! Thank you! :)

zoidyberg
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Post by zoidyberg »

Horrible typo on my part. I DID NOT KNOW THIS.

Without the not, the previous post sound really snarky when it should actually be appreciative. Sorry about that.

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Murto the Ray
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Post by Murto the Ray »

I thought i would wait a while to see if you corrected it or not :) no offence taken

dzine
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Post by dzine »

I think its a valid tactic

allbeit a bit cheesy...bit like blocking a factory with a live tank



It is only OP early game if u have only one refinery, otherwise u just send your oretruk to your second refinery or even an allied refinery...i did that in several games when the enemy was using 'refinery blocking' a lot

It does cost the enemy a tank and micro time, so its not all one way. Never forget the cost of doing X tactic



the joy of a complex rts game is discovering all the tricks and combos...and figuring out the counters and/or risk reduction factors

I was annoyed and impressed in equal measure the first time my refinery was blocked

the ability to force fire on husks would of course be an nice balancing effect



...ill take a tank in my refinery over a spy in my powerstation any day of the week !


Counters to refinery blocking

Fire on husk
Sell refinery for quick cash boost
Build a second refinery
Send part full harvester to far ore
Send harvester to another refinery yours or even allied
Have a couple of rocket inf handy and try to intercept
Rage quit
Start a post like this !

I will agree its a bit of a cheesy tactic but there is a real 'upfront cost' to the enemy and there are many counters...u lose a round of ore, maybe two...but that ore is still there to be collected so u get the money back mid game

Husk linger time reduced by a few seconds perhaps ????
That would keep the tactic valid but would stop it from being an OP lucky strike early game

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