Kaution Kup Map thread

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Kaution Kup Map thread

Post by Blackened »

Thought I'd make a thread so that people could talk about opinions on the maps. I think All of them were very interesting and refreshing. I'm surprised my maps got picked as much as the did even if some of that was through the random map pick.

Italicized stuff are comments before tournament
regular is after.

Pinkthoth's Maps:

Played like 3 games and just noticed the hospital. :P
Too many oils. IMO oils are hard. We all know the stats on oils but the setup for alegria leads to: early game is huge and late game is good sustain. The counter to this is obviously both sides get the same amount of oils.

The map might suffer from "patches syndrome" which is what happy or myself would call "the state of constantly dropping refs and expanding". I'm not saying my strat is right but my go to on this map is to drop a ref/defense structure and expand then repeat. Almost all my raxes/wf/tech are at my main when I tried this map. I don't even bother to move out my main except maybe to inch towards the closer patch. My reasoning is because of the above mentioned syndrome. Due to the size and openness its reasonable to assume I'm going to be caught surprised on a patch somewhere. Therefore, I'd rather let them kill only a ref/harv and a defense than lose more. Potentially i have my queued army ready to clean up if they work their way around the map. But if I don't I can requeue to prep for their army.

The game I played against JSG was a perfect example of my strat. He took out 2 maybe 3 spots I think but all i really lost was a ref and I had others to replace.

All that being said, there is much to like.There is an argument that all the oil and their position makes wf first or ref wf better as you have the extra income and the spawn distances are far. Additionally the "patches syndrome"+size makes tier 2 more viable because the scouts are nice.

Options: I feel I get what you were going for in the map. Extra space for attack vectors around the edge, 2 ore mines in main to be supplemented by oils, and no clear advantageous expo route at the least.

I'm curious if oils arranged so that 2 are safe, 1 is semi safe unless early pressured, and 1 easily contestable is a better option, though that does lend double ref into a more viable option.

I stand by my previous comments after the tourny.

Castle in the grave:
Only ever got two matches :(

Luckyluke said it felt big/lots of oils but I kinda disagree. Especially since when I thought I was up 5-1 oils I found out he had reversed capped mine and it was actually 3-3

This map is not dissimilar to Algeria. Its big and I'd rather leave everything in my main and drop refs everywhere. I think it deserves more games.

Jungle Boogie:
I think this is a very good meta+ map where the "+" just means it has a little extra variation on the meta map. 4 mines at start being the big one, and left/right natural expo actually being a bit of a conundrum. While taking the safe left/down or right/up expo is ideal I think it is very easy to push either of the middle expos and pressure. Which means taking the middle expos first and back expanding might be better, but do you use the main or expo mcv for that?

The one downside to this map is how forced i think the middle expos are. They are golden positions for any playstyle because of what they offer.

I think this was one of the better maps in the tournament. I wouldn't be surprised if it has a lot of staying power.

This might be my favorite map so far. While up/down seems the natural way to expand I think left/right is better, even if the previous is still viable. This map definitely lends to tech play with the ridges offering good escapes. Any battle happening around the choke points in the middle becomes very tricky as units tend to ultimately path badly. I also like that this map becomes very hard to death ball. Very often have I seen multi front fights which is always exciting.

My only complaint might be the entrances from the middle are all very small being only 3 cells and slowed by debris. 4 or 5 might be better. But maybe the middle shouldn't be used for aggressive army rotations.

Widower's Trail:
I didn't get to play a whole lot on this map unfortunately. I wanted to but I also thought people would pick the more standard meta maps more, so I practiced them more. I really like the set up of the start ore with the slight contention that the ore pieces don't allow very nice placement :P

Very wide flanks makes it dangerous to not chase down an army if they disappear there which is interesting.

Lad Maps:

Deadly Dunes:
random spawn 1v1's have a lot of room to really nail down and refine into viable and fun competitive maps. This map plays okay near spawn and fine diagonal spawn, but I worry same side long spawns become a race to the middle type game. Having production so close to the players main really allows you to choke them out if uncontested.

Desert Strike:
Fairly standard meta map. Plays nice.

My one concern with this map is what I brought up during the stream. For whatever reason, people tend to expand towards the same side and clash in one big fight. Whoever wins that fight wins the game. In the mint vs bete game there were definitely other factors in that game but my point does stand. What I do really like about this map is that every ore patch can be base pushed/flanked.

Isle of Wright:
Only played once. Kinda the opposite of deadly Dunes. Near side plays okay. Far side plays the worst. Same side far might play the best. Love the attempt at naval.

After playing in the tournament I stand by my earlier thoughts. Near side plays okay, but is vulnerable to early pressure as demonstrated in my match. Far side plays similarly to Rediscovery. As a side note: doggos need all the treats for their performance on that map.

Suffers the first to take middle will win problem for every start variation but diagonally across.

Stand by this assessment as well with some additional opinions. This map is big. It's 2v2 sized in a 1v1 map. Drawing soviets sucked, though I should have gone to tesla tech because that is the best comp on that map and might be OP. The problem is the eco really doesn't like early teching. Every expansion is far away and even you've expanded twice you have only 6 ore spots mid sized patches. I don't know how Despro felt but trying to babysit my eco for harassment was a chore due to the size of the map.

Summer Camp:
Same as Desert Strike. Meta, but solid.
I was surprised no one wanted to pick this map more. It is hands down the best meta map of the tournament and plays very nice. This map definitely will be played for awhile.

Skull and Bones:
Interesting. Need more games. Scouting becomes huge on this huge map.

Not scouting the main was my downfall :P Whether or not being able to go to t3 on 1 base is a viable strategy is open in the air, but the fact that this map has super protected positions is another contention. The main can only be flanked by a long slow sandbar. The expo has a lot of debris so basepushing is also not a good idea. I think this map deserves more plays and I don't think my opinion here is final. My opinion might be tainted because of how that loss felt on that map, so I'd like to play it some more.

ILM Maps:

God do I hate circulate with a passion, which probably means it's a great map.

The oils get me tilted because I feel like if you really want to you can contest any oils from the draw. The patches with the cover behind debris and cliffs are very protected. There's 102k ore on this but is seems very light. But also Despro called me out when I practically rq when in 6 minutes I lost every single engagements on it so. I need more play. I'm worried the middle is too valuable.

Welp, I guess I Should have known. But I also stand by my previous assessment. Despro took the 2 oils and then killed mine. Could I have gone double ref too? Sure. But even if I did, whoever came out on top of that could have walked to the other one. The protect ore patches pretty much went untouched the entire game for both sides.

I also stand by the middle be extremely valuable on that map. My biggest mistake was not contesting his corner side at all.

"God do I hate circulate with a passion, which probably means it's a great map." still may be an accurate assessment. :P

MO Maps:

Sullied valleys:
I fuckin love your maps sheerly because of what you try with every one of them. I think as a 1v1, this map has a lot of fun potential and as a dark tournament map would be fantastic. That being said, I think it fully has potential as a standard map. Its 4 bits unusual and 1 bit meta which is nice. I fully intend to pick this at some point in the kaution cup(assuming I can).

My two complaints might be harvesters having the penchant to jump ore patches due to current harvester logic. But that's kinda out of your hands besides making super distance ore patches. The only other complaint would be It's very hard to get a good rhythm on this map. When to take the gem spots, when to expand elsewhere and when to build army is all out of sync with normal games. Though maybe that just means it needs to be played more to be understood.

I lucked out and had this randomly picked for me. I was also terrified to play this map. Namely because I have no idea how to "properly" play it. You can do almost anything on this map.

mega tank Maps:

Retaliation X:
Hello shadowfiend2.0 but with darth vader level of chokes. :D

If this map gets split horizontally this map becomes a slogfest. The oils on the side act as excellent flank scouts and the pathing really limits where you can go.

Vertical splits might have a little bit more room but suffer all the same.

I don't like the amount of congestion. But maybe that's just a product of the meta shifting to bigger and bigger maps. I wonder if making stretching it out in almost every way would make it better? Bigger flanks, bigger distance between each ore patch, etc.

My Maps:

Autumn mix:
I think this map plays decently. It seems very simple at first but its also very easy to get around scouts which makes it nice. I really haven't had a terrible game on it. The only differences I would make involve the bridges because sadly, I just don't see repairing bridge attacks viable.

I know maps without oils are far and few in between but I don't think every map needs them, especially when double ref is semi viable because of the early push potential.

Well, I got to see double ref into an all in be viable and I got to see someone repair a bridge and utilize it effectively. I'm content. I'm not opposed to an oil or two but I also think its good without.

Decidious Ring:

I think this map also plays pretty good. Although, this map definitely breaks the meta in a good way I think. You really can't just play is straight and requires much more strategic positioning+ good scouting at all times.

I think the one change I need at least is moving the center oils. Very easy to go 3-1 on them.

Greater Pastures:
Need more games played. Gormented pointed out that early mcv push is pretty viable, but not game over quality I think. Its easy to scout and I think protecting that half of the map is important due to the 3 ore mines in the corner. This map definitely is a base push map though.

I found it funny Gacius and I both base pushed to the same area. The difference being I TOOK THE TRIPLE MINE FIRST. WTF, WHY DID NEITHER OF THE MATCHES TAKE THAT SPOT FIRST?!?!

Illusions of Granduer:

Need to play more. I think the middle oil needs to be removed at a minimum. Perhaps making the single mine expos have more ore would be helpful too.

Bain vs despro was a great game on this map, and gave me a little faith. I still stand by my previous assessment though,

needs more games. Maybe an oil or two to incentivize an engineer.

Unfortunately only got played once and in an inbalcanced game. This map is hard and "off meta" but I don't think it's bad perse.

I think it plays okay. Needs more games.

It does play okay. My ideas on the map so far have been what I wanted.

Oil over ore:
Meh. Plays meh. I don't really know how to fix this.

I want to stress. The name on this map is no lie. Even at 3 oils you're up 1 additional ore mine. Have 5+ and you're pretty much free to spend money at any stage of the game.

I think it plays good. Chaotic, but good.. Maybe the middle ore mine is too strong. Debris or outright dropping it could be good. Needs more games.

I still like this map. It is chaotic and it's fun. I think its a great modern meta trapped.

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