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[FR] FRenzy's naval Rules

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:35 pm
by FRenzy
Here is my attempt at improving the naval gameplay : FRenzy's naval Rules, or [FR].

I've been inspired by the previous similar works, lately Punsho's "Naval Revamp", which had very interesting ideas about naval-land interaction.
My mod is heavily based on "Naval Revamp", and aims to simplify, and modify its rules.
Link to "Naval Revamp" for reference : viewtopic.php?f=82&t=21084

- Simplification is seeked for players' acceptability
- Possibility of creating open maps, by allowing easier crossing for land armies
- Open up naval games to more options, and restore the land-naval-air interaction
> Current naval games lack the possibility of using land armies efficiently, due to the limited naval-land interaction.
> The naval options are also limited, especially for the soviet factions who lack effective short-range land harassment, and affordable AA units.

- Naval-land interaction
• ALL vehicles move on water at ~25% speed (T1 vehicles at ~50%). Minelayer can place mines on water.
• Naval Transport carries 15 infantry (or 3 to 5 vehicles)

- Maintain the importance of naval control, to secure the crossing
• Slow vehicle crossing, and Naval Transport speed reduced : easier to intercept by naval units

- Keep it simple : few new assets (only 2), coherent gameplay between factions
• The "Missile Submarine" becomes the equivalent of the "Destroyer", using ground missiles, AA missiles, and torpedos.
• The original siege unit "Missile Submarine" is now named "ICBM Submarine", with a new sprite, but the same siege weapon as the original.
• New "Coastal Turret" defensive structure

- Naval units balancing between factions
• Spy Plane detects submarines, Sonar Pulse added to the Naval Yard
• Various unit changes (speed, armament, damage, HP, cost).
The two factions share the same tech tree structure, with comparable units on each tier.
Both factions share the same options in terms of : naval warfare, short- and long-range harassment, AA capability.

* MAPS :
This opens new possibilities in terms of map design, new considerations on how to design water elements have to be made.
For instance, long distances on water reduce vehicle mobility on water and the gameplay's fluidity.

Currently, I only have this map using [FR] :
- [FR] Bombardment Beach -

Please feel free to suggest :
- new maps, or existing maps suitable for this mod.
- modifications, tweaks, suggestions, ideas, critics.

* Credits :
- "Naval Revamp" mod-maps (Punsho) : viewtopic.php?f=82&t=21084
- Floating Light Tank : SirCake's UOE map mod - viewtopic.php?f=83&t=20307
- Coastal Turret : Insert Name's TD Navy Mod-Maps - viewtopic.php?f=83&t=19012
- ICBM Submarine : Inq's Combined Arms mod - ... bined-arms

* Other references :
- Naval Alpha (Blackened) : viewtopic.php?f=83&t=20113. Also : viewtopic.php?f=82&t=20456

Re: [FR] FRenzy's naval Rules

Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:00 am
by Punsho
Heya. One idea i got from testing the rewamp, you could make vehicles unable to fire while embarked. It always seemed like a problem, mostly with flaks and mammoths

Re: [FR] FRenzy's naval Rules

Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:21 pm
by Upps
For me is everything ok, if we can get somehow more combat situations between naval and land units in the (far) future ^^.
Right now its very difficult even to design maps which could make fun with naval units.

I want to mention that when you use floating vehicels that you cant "block" their movement on the water.
Thats why I think a new tileset like shallow water would be another option, see how it get used in AOE 2.
If the tileset has a big variety of tiles many map design choices are possibel. From a simple ford of a river to a big shallow water sea fight. You can give Naval units safe space where no floating vehicel ever can get them and you just have interactions between naval and airunits.
Also maps which have already water elements didnt get changed gameplaywise too!

Re: [FR] FRenzy's naval Rules

Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:39 pm
by joey_jaz
"ALL vehicles move on water at ~25% speed (T1 vehicles at ~50%)."
If Move > X
(Move -Y )*.5
Suggestions. Some T1 arguably too fast. Needs more testing.
Allied artillery turnover too slow. Add fixed value for e.g. ranger, increase (or rather decrease less) turning of allied artillery/other T2+. Similar formular.

"Sonar Pulse added to the Naval Yard"
Add radius of effect similar to radar jammer

"New "Coastal Turret" defensive structure"
Edit existing or add new
Naval wall

Re: [FR] FRenzy's naval Rules

Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 7:53 am
by netnazgul
Hey, FRenzy. Are you still keen to update this (wrt feedback above)?

I'm thinking of running occasional one-day King of the Hill "tournaments", similar or even incorporated into what N/a did in Open League, with the main theme being modified ruleset maps. So was considering this naval thing to feature as well.

Re: [FR] FRenzy's naval Rules

Posted: Sun May 24, 2020 9:47 pm
by FRenzy
Hey netnazgul !

Glad this is getting interest for upcoming events !

I'm currently on pause again in modding / mapmaking (IRL stuff)

Besides, after some testing during the past weeks, the whole thing appeared to be unpolished yet. Here's my list of detected issues :

- I tried to make mud bridges crossable by naval units :
I believe standard bridges have impassable cells, so I used mud bridges instead.
However it means naval units can move on all "Beach" tiles, which gives an unpolished result.
Maybe it's better to use standard bridges but this needs more work and study.

- I gave Missile Subs torpedos low damage values as a temporary fix for balance sake (Destroyer's depth charge is anti-subs only, while torpedoes target naval structures aswell).
This is of course not acceptable as a final configuration, and needs to be thought and redesigned.

- Naval balance still needs thorough tweaking and testing : turrets might be a bit weak, submarines might be too fragile against aircraft (cf Missile Sub vs Aircraft), ...

And about the remarks above :
- no firing while embarked : not fan of this as it would be unintelligible by the players. I'm not sure it is a very big problem.
- new naval-only tiles : good idea, but I'm not sure it is doable, and I don't know how to
- updating existing naval maps : calling to their mapmakers for that :p
- tweaking vehicles' speed : yes, probably needs some tweaking
- sonar pulse's visible radius of effect : is this doable for a support power ? I don't know how to
- naval wall / fence : hmm why not, but would it be a specific type of wall ? new sprite, and different price ? Needs more thinking.

So this is a long to-do list, and for some of the issues I don't have the solution r/n.

Unfortunately I'm afraid I can't work on it atm, especially if you're planning on soon upcoming tournament / events. So I thought I'd share my current progress in case anyone wanted to do anything with it immediately, please feel free I don't mind.

Latest revision :
Naval rules are inside a separate folder, so should be easy to study and modify.