Dune 2K Rebalancement Mod (WIP)

My first try on modding OpenRA, please be gentle :D

Information and discussion for custom maps and mods.
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Prince Blueblood
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Dune 2K Rebalancement Mod (WIP)

Post by Prince Blueblood »

Alright, after several times playing Dune2k MP, and *seriously* I win all the time by simple *cough* Spamming Combat Tanks, Riflemen, and Troopers... with all three houses.

And no, I'm not saying I love doing brute force spam attacks, but to simply put, the other non combat tanks-riflemen-trooper combo is... mostly non-viable on current balancement of Dune2k. Only late game Ordos Deviators can exceed the overwhelming-ness of this admittedly crude strategy, but then, Deviators at current build are definite OP if you invest a bit more in microing them (since they take your enemy tanks permanently.

So, first, using both the latest stable release and latest playtest versions, combat tank - riflemen - troopers continue to dominate things. Not even building siege tanks can actually hold the tide of meatshields, I mean infantry waves. Tried doing something else as Ordos myself (namely, using light factory to raid enemy harvesters with quads and raiders), but it wasn't viable once my enemy start churning combat tanks and infantry, and I must resort to the same tactics to counter it (yes, I'm also at the receiving end of this kind of attacks, but well, I pull a win simply because Jebivjetar start to churn missile tanks trying to *siege* my base (but failed, missile tanks attacks are too weak, and they're very fragile, even less robust than trikes, all that needed to turn the tide is several combat tanks hitting them frontally)

Yeah, I did play RA and CNC more often than I play Dune2K in OpenRA (because Dune2K has few players), but as far as I know, using Tanks-Riflemen-Rocket soldiers combo in both RA and CNC are suicide there (artilleries kill the infantrymen and your tanks are easy pickings), so...

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Ok, so I came into conclusion that Dune2k mod in OpenRA is somehow unbalanced, and after a week trying to learn editing and modifying the YAMLs, here's my first try on the Dune2K balancements.

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?fi ... 2172681454

Yes, this is based on the latest Playtest Release (20141020),

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Prince Blueblood
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Location: Kudus

Post by Prince Blueblood »

Here's the list of what I've done to re-balance the Dune2K...

_________


General Options
- Removing the $2500 starting cash option while adding $15000, the default is still on $5000 though (you cannot start really well with $2500 due to severe building price increase in this submod, $400 Windtrap + $2000 Refinery means you are hard pressed for concrete! and cannot build early barrack at all...)

Code: Select all

General Gameplay
- Giving Starport buildspeed of 0.12, yes, you can order at starports really fast, but then, Starport price is more expensive, and you can actually speed up productions in this submod.
- Infantry production is faster than vehicle production by a 12.5% margin
- Increase Camera event radius to 10 (from 8)
- Slow down vehicle speed on spice areas to 70 (from 80)
- Slow down tank speed on spice areas to 70 (from 80)
- Slow down infantry speed on spice areas to 65 (from 80)
- Increase Husk burn interval to 16 (from 4), husks should be available longer for capture

Economy
- Increase the Spice replenishment interval to 125 (from 75), expansions / long range harvesting operations now should be more seriously considered.
- Reduced Bounty of killed units to 5% (from 10%), Building Bounty is still 10%
- Increase the resell value of buildings to 75% (from 50%)

Units
- Vehicles & Tanks are now capturable (by Saboteur)
- By default, Infantry are now able to detect cloaked units in really short range (range = 1). Like in the Original Dune2k, spread infantry at your base to avoid cloaked infiltrators inside.

-------------------

Building Stats:

- Increase Construction Yard cost to $3000 (from $2000)
- Set Construction Yard custom sold value to $2800
- Increase Construction Yard health to 1500 (from 1000), Construction Yard has Concrete type armor.
- Remove the redundant power supply from Construction Yard (set power to 0)

- Increase Windtrap cost to $400 (from $300)
- Increase Windtrap health to 500 (from 400)
- Increase Windtrap power supply to 200 (from 100)

- Increase Atreides and Ordos Barrack cost to $600 (from $300)
- Increase Harkonnen Barrack cost to $500 (from $300)
- Increase Barrack health to 900 (from 800)
- Increase Barrack power cost to -25 (from -20)

- Increase Refinery cost to $2000 (from $1500)
- Increase Refinery health to 1000 (from 900)
- Increase Refinery spice storage capacity to $5000 (from $2000)
- Increase Refinery custom sell value to $700 (from $500) * Harvester cost $1300
- Increase Refinery power cost to -50 (from -30)

- Increase Silo cost to $250 (from $150)
- Increase Silo health to 400 (from 300)
- Change Silo armor type to Concrete (from wood)
- Increase Silo spice storage capacity to $2500 (from $2000)

- Increase Light Factory cost to $800 (from $500)
- Increase Light Factory health to 900 (from 750)
- Increase Light Factory power cost to -25 (from -20)

- Increase Heavy Factory cost to $2500 (from $2000)
- Reduce Heavy Factory health to 1400 (from 1500)
- Change Heavy Factory armor type to Concrete (from wood)
- Increase Heavy Factory power cost to -60 (from -30)

- Increase Outpost cost to $1200 (from $700)
- Increase Outpost health to 1200 (from 1000)
- Increase Outpost sight range to 12 (from 10)
- Increase Outpost power cost to -50 (from -40)

- You can only build one starport now, capturing enemy's own is still a valid tactic though
- Starport can now operate without power, at the cost of extreme slowdown
- Increase Starport cost to $3000 (from $2000)
- Increase Starport health to 2000 (from 1000)
- Increase Starport power cost to -125 (from -40)

- Reduce Wall cost to $50 (from $100)
- Increase Wall health to 400 (from 300)

- Increase Atreides and Ordos Gun Turret cost to $700 (from $650)
- Reduce Harkonnen Gun Turret cost to $600 (from $650)
- Increase Gun Turret health to 600 (from 400)
- Increase Gun Turret sight range to 9 (from 8)
- Reduce Gun Turret cloak detection range to 4 (from 5)
- Reduce Gun Turret power cost to -15 (from -20)
- Reduce TurretGun reload delay to 30 (from 35)
- Increase TurretGun damage to 60 (from 50)
- Reduce TurretGun effectiveness vs infantry to 40 (from 50)
- Reduce TurretGun effectiveness vs wood armor to 65 (from 75)
- Reduce TurretGun effectiveness vs concrete armor to 50 (from 65)

- Increase Atreides and Ordos Rocket Turret cost to $1250 (from $850)
- Increase Harkonnen Rocket Turret cost to $1100 (from $850)
- Increase Rocket Turret health to 450 (from 400)
- Reduce Rocket Turret rotation to 6 (from 8)
- Increase Rocket Turret power cost to -60 (from -30)
- Reduce TowerMissile reload delay to 24 (from 35)
- Increase TowerMissile range to 9 (from 7.768)
- Reduce TowerMissile burst delay to 8 (from 15)
- Reduce TowerMissile inaccuracy to 288 (from 384)
- Increase TowerMissile speed to 384 (from 256)
- Reduce TowerMissile spread to 224 (from 384)
- Increase TowerMissile damage to 70 (from 50)
- Reduce TowerMissile effectiveness vs infantry to 35 (from 50)
- Increase TowerMissile effectiveness vs wood armor to 50 (from 45)
- Increase TowerMissile effectiveness vs heavy armor to 120s (from 50)
- Increase TowerMissile effectiveness vs concrete armor to 45 (from 35)

- Increase Repair Pad cost to $800 (from $500)
- Increase Repair Pad health to 700 (from 500)
- Reduce Repair Pad repair value percentage to 10 (from 50)
- Set Repair Pad hp per step to 50
- Increase Repair Pad power cost to -45 (from -10)

- Increase High Tech Facility cost to $1300 (from $750)
- Reduce High Tech Facility health to 1300 (from 1500)
- Increase High Tech Facility power cost to -55 (from -40)

- Rename Ix Lab to Mentat Research Facility (remove the reference from Ixian, who use thinking machines)
- Remove Paratroopers power from Research Facility (to be used as ordos "Superweapon")
- Increase Research Facility cost to $1700 (from $1500)
- Increase Research Facility health to 1100 (from 1000)
- Increase Research Facility sight range to 10 (from 4)
- Increase Research Facility power cost to -85 (from -40)

- Remove Cloak detection from Palace

- Increase Ordos Palace cost to $3000 (from $2000)
- Ordos Palace "Paratroopers" 17 Riflemen + 8 Troopers, with 5:00 recharge time
- Increase Ordos Palace power cost to -100 (from -50)
- Increase Ordos Palace health to 2500 (from 2000)

- Increase Atreides Palace cost to $3000 (from $2000)
- Atreides Palace still obviously use Airstrike, but Airstrike is now improved with 7:00 recharge time
- Increase Atreides Palace power cost to -125 (from -50)
- Increase Atreides Palace health to 2500 (from 2000)

- Increase Harkonnen Palace cost to $4000 (from $2000)
- Death hand missile recharge time is now 10:00
- Increase Harkonnen Palace power cost to -200 (from -50)
- Increase Harkonnen Palace health to 3000 (from 2000)

-------------------

Infantry Stats

- Increase Rifleman speed to 54 (from 53)
- Reduce LMG reload delay to 18 (from 20)
- Increase LMG burst to 2 (from 1)
- Give LMG burst delay of 12
- Increase LMG effectiveness vs heavy armor to 15 (from 10)

- Increase Engineer health to 40 (from 25)
- Increase Engineer speed to 54 (from 53)
- Remove Yellow Pip from Engineer (causing CTD when entering transport vehicle)

- Trooper now can be trained directly from barracks
- Increase Trooper health to 55 (from 45)
- Increase Trooper speed to 51 (from 42)
- Increase Bazooka range to 5.768 (from 5)
- Increase Bazooka reload delay to 54 (from 50)
- Change Bazooka missile path to ballistic (from missile, since it's pseudo-guided missile who can't get any hits from afar)
- Increase Bazooka missile speed to 240 (from 160)
- Increase Bazooka inaccuracy to 224 (from 96)
- Increase Bazooka range limit to 40 (from 35)
- Explicitly write high: false for Bazooka projectile (no longer skipping walls)
- Increase Bazooka spread to 172 (from 96)
- Increase Bazooka effectiveness vs infantry to 35 (from 10)
- Reduce Bazooka effectiveness vs wood armor to 70 (from 75)
- Increase Bazooka effectiveness vs light armor to 75 (from 60)
- Increase Bazooka effectiveness vs heavy armor to 100 (from 90)
- Increase Bazooka effectiveness vs concrete to 55 (from 40)

- Medic now require High-Tech Facility to train
- Reduce Medic cost to $350 (from $500)
- Remove Blue Pip from Medic (causing CTD when entering transport vehicle)
- Increase Medic speed to 50 (from 42)
- Increase Heal spread to 256 (from 160)
- Increase Heal damage to -60 (from -50)

- Increase Sardaukar cost to $700 (from $400)
- Increase Sardaukar health to 120 (from 100)
- Increase Sardaukar speed to 51 (from 42)
- Increase Sardaukar sight range to 8 (from 6)
- Sardaukar will never take cover or lay prone
- Give Sardaukar self-healing up to 75%
- Reduce Vulcan reload delay to 28 (from 30)
- Increase Vulcan range to 8 (from 5.768)
- Increase Vulcan burst to 4 (from 1)
- Give Vulcan burst delay of 12
- Increase Vulcan damage to 32 (from 30)
- Reduce Vulcan effectiveness vs light armor to 30 (from 60)
- Increase Vulcan effectiveness vs heavy armor to 15 (from 10)
- Reduce Slung reload delay to 56 (from 60)
- Reduce Slung attack delay to 4 (from 5)
- Reduce Slung speed to 304 (from 320)
- Reduce Slung inaccuracy to 344 (from 384)
- Increase Slung damage to 55 (from 30)
- Increase Slung effectiveness vs infantry to 10 (from 0 around third of bazooka effectiveness)
- Increase Slung effectiveness vs light armor to 90 (from 40)
- Increase Slung effectiveness vs heavy armor to 100 (from 90)
- Increase Slung effectiveness vs concrete armor to 60 (from 50)

- Increase Grenadier cost to $200 (from $160)
- Increase Grenadier health to 65 (from 50)
- Increase Grenadier speed to 60 (from 53)
- Reduce Grenadier fire delay to 3 (from 15)
- Increase Grenadier sight range to 7 (from 5)
- Reduce Grenadier chance to explode to 0% (from 100%)
- Reduce Grenade reload delay to 52 (from 60)
- Increase Grenade range to 5 (from 4)
- Reduce Grenade speed to 188 (from 204)
- Reduce Grenade inaccuracy to 360 (from 416)
- Increase Grenade spread to 256 (from 192)
- Increase Grenade effectiveness vs infantry to 75 (from 50)
- Increase Grenade effectiveness vs light armor to 40 (from 25)
- Increase Grenade effectiveness vs heavy armor to 20 (from 5)
- Reduce Grenade effectiveness vs concrete armor to 90 (from 100)

- Reduce Fremen cost to $750 (from $800)
- Increase Fremen speed to 64 (from 53)
- Reduce Fremen health to 60 (from 70)
- Increase Fremen sight range to 9 (from 7)
- Increase Fremen cloak detection range to 6 (from 1)
- Increase Fremen scan radius to 8 (from 7)
- Fremen now armed with rifle and Grenades (not sniper and slung)
- Fremen will never take cover or lay prone
- Reduce Fremen cloaking delay to 60 (from 250)
- Remove Fremen cloaking-uncloaking sounds (They're naturals)
- Give Fremen self healing up to 75%

- Increase Saboteur cost to $900 (from $800), Saboteur's suicide bomb is quite damaging and affect larger area than you may think 
- Change the nature of Saboteur's bomb from C4 to direct suicide bomber (must be deployed)
- Give Saboteur ability to hijack vehicles (so if there's lone harvester, he can just break inside and capture it rather than blasting himself)
- Reduce Saboteur health to 70 (from 100)
- Increase Saboteur speed to 72 (from 64)
- Increase Saboteur sight range to 8
- Give Saboteur invisibility when not moving
- Saboteur has 100% chance to explode on death

-------------------

Vehicle stats

- Increase MCV Cost to refect change in Con Yard cost, to $3000 (from $2000), Starport MCV cost $4500 (but did not need repair pad to buy it)
- Change MCV armor type to Heavy
- Increase MCV hp to 900 (from 800)
- Reduce MCV speed to 59 (from 64)

- Increase Harvester cost to $1300 (from $1000)
- Increase Harvester health to 1140 (from 1000)
- Increase Harvester speed to 65 (from 64)
- Give Harvester self healing up to 75%
- Set Starport Harvester cost to $1725 (25% more + $100 for pilot)

- Increase Trike cost to $300 (from $250)
- Increase Trike health to 140 (from 100)
- Increase Trike speed to 137 (from 128)
- Increase Trike sight range to 8 (from 7)
- Give Trike cloak detection range of 3
- Increase HMG burst to 5 (from 2)
- Reduce HMG burst delay to 4 (from 5)
- Reduce HMG damage to 25 (from 30)
- Increase HMG effectiveness vs wood armor to 25 (from 15)
- Increase HMG effectiveness vs light armor to 50 (from 45)
- Increase HMG effectiveness vs heavy armor to 25 (from 20)

- Increase Raider cost to $400 (from $300)
- Increase Raider health to 185 (from 110)
- Increase Raider Rotation rate to 11 (from 10)
- Increase Raider speed to 158 (from 149)
- Increase Raider sight range to 8 (from 7)
- Give Raider cloak detection range of 3
- Reduce HMGo reload delay to 27 (from 30)
- Increase HMGo burst to 5 (from 2)
- Reduce HMGo burst delay to 3 (from 5)
- Reduce HMGo damage to 33 (from 40)
- Increase HMGo effectiveness vs wood armor to 25 (from 15)
- Increase HMGo effectiveness vs light armor to 60 (from 45)
- Increase HMGo effectiveness vs heavy armor to 30 (from 25)

- Increase Stealth Raider cost to $600 (from $400)
- Stealth Raider stats identic with Raider, with sole exception of cloaking ability

- Increase Quad cost to $500 (from $400)
- Increase Quad health to 190 (from 125)
- Increase Quad Rotation rate to 9 (from 8)
- Increase Quad speed to 126 (from 96)
- Give Quad ability to transport up to 3 infantry inside
- Reduce QuadRockets reload delay to 30
- Reduce QuadRockets burst delay to 15
- Reduce QuadRockets range to 6.512 (from 7)
- Increase QuadRockets speed to 320 (from 256)
- Increase QuadRockets range limit to 50 (from 40)
- Increase QuadRockets spread to 180 (from 96)
- Increase QuadRockets damage to 36 (from 25)
- Increase QuadRockets effectiveness vs wood armor to 55 (from 45)
- Increase QuadRockets effectiveness vs heavy armor to 120 (from 100)
- Increase QuadRockets effectiveness vs concrete armor to 45 (from35)

-------------------

COMBAT TANK SECTION

Ordos Combat Tank : Cheap, fast, and statistically inferior, but should make up in numbers

- Keep Ordos Combat Tank cost at $700
- Reduce Ordos Combat Tank sight range to 7 (from 8)
- Increase Ordos Combat Tank health to 360 (from 350)
- Increase Ordos Combat Tank Turret rotation to 9 (from 8)
- Increase Ordos Combat Tank speed to 108 (from 96)
- Change Ordos Combat Tank weapon to 80mm
- Reduce 80mm reload delay to 32 (from 50)
- Keep 80mm range at 5.768
- Increase 80mm projectile speed to 672 (from 640)
- Reduce 80mm damage to 32
- Increase 80mm effectiveness vs infantry to 60 (from 50)
- Increase 80mm effectiveness vs wood armor to 60 (from 50)
- Increase 80mm effectiveness vs light armor to 110 (from 100)

- Increase Atreides Combat Tank cost to $900
- Increase Atreides Combat Tank health to 470 (from 350)
- Increase Atreides Combat Tank Turret Rotation to 7 (from 6)
- Increase Atreides Combat Tank speed to 86 (from 64)
- Reduce 90mma reload delay to 48 (from 50)
- Increase 90mma damage to 44 (from 40)
- Increase 90mma effectiveness vs wood armor to 65 (from 50)
- Increase 90mma effectiveness vs concrete armor to 55 (from 50)

- Increase Harkonnen Combat Tank cost to $900
- Increase Harkonnen Combat Tank health to 580 (from 440)
- Increase Harkonnen Combat Tank sight range to 8 (from 7)
- Increase Harkonnen Combat Tank Turret Rotation to 6 (from 5)
- Increase Harkonnen Combat Tank speed to 70 (from 53)
- Reduce 90mm reload delay to 48 (from 50)
- Increase 90mm range to 6 (from 5.768)
- Reduce 90mm inaccuracy to 304 (from 384)
- Increase 90mm spread to 264 (from 256)
- Increase 90mm damage to 44 (from 40)
- Increase 90mm effectiveness vs infantry to 55 (from 50)
- Increase 90mm effectiveness vs wood armor to 60 (from 50)
- Increase 90mm effectiveness vs heavy armor to 105 (from 100)

- turn original combat tank template to be the average stats and using 80mm (will create "Basic" combat tank for starport use later)

-------------------

- Increase Siege Tank cost to $1300 (from $850)
- Increase Siege Tank health to 300 (from 120)
- Increase Siege Tank speed to 66 (from 51)
- Increase Siege Tank sight range to 10 (from 8)
- Siege Tank has 25% chance to explode on death
- Increase 155mm reload delay to 105 (from 75)
- Increase 155mm attack range to 11 (from 8)
- Give 155mm attack burst of 3 (from 1)
- Give 155mm burst delay of 60 (from n/a)
- Increase 155mm inaccuracy to 1314 (from 1256)
- Increase 155mm spread damage to 512 (from 384)
- Reduce 155mm effectiveness vs light armor to 70 (from 75)
- Reduce 155mm effectiveness vs heavy armor to 30 (from 50)
- Reduce 155mm effectiveness vs concrete armor to 90 (from 100)

- Increase Rocket Tank cost to $1600 (from $1000)
- Reduce Rocket Tank rotation to 4 (from 5)
- Increase Rocket Tank speed to 72 (from 64)
- Change Rocket Tank armor type to heavy (from light)
- Increase Rocket Tank sight range to 11 (from 9)
- Increase Rocket Tank health to 200 (from 90)
- Rocket Tank has 75% chance to explode on death
- Severely modify 227mm to portay rocket barrage (a lot of change, dish much more damage in wide area, reload significantly longer)
- Increase effective attack range of 227mm to 15 (from 12)

- Increase Devastator cost to $2500 (from $1200)
- Increase Devastator health to 1200 (from 650)
- Increase Devastator speed to 64 (from 42)
- Give Devastator self-healing up to 75%
- Give Devastator Devastating death weapon (that can be prematurely triggered by deploying it)
- Reduce Devastator reload delay to 30
- Increase Devastator spread to 388
- Devastator do full damage to all type of armor except concrete (75%) and heavy armor (150%)

- Change Deviator into Light Vehicle with stealth capability, all while firing a indirect rocket barrage (kinda indirect version of dedicated tank destroyer), Deviator doesn't even uncloaked when attacking (but uncloaked when moving) * Will be changed once Attack Loyalty can give temporary control of unit as per Original.
- Increase Deviator cost to $1700 (from $1000)
- Give Deviator cloak detection range of 3
- Deviator attack also destroy spice

- Increase Sonic Tank cost to $2250 (from $1250)
- Increase Sonic Tank health to 300 (from 130)
- Change Sonic Tank armor type to heavy (from light)
- Increase Sonic Tank speed to 82 (from 74)
- Increase Sonic Tank sight range to 12 (from 6)
- Reduce SonicSound reload delay to 60 (from 100)
- Increase SonicSound range to 15 (from 8.512)
- Increase SonicSOund spread to 96 (from 32)
- Reduce SonicSound damage to 60 (from 150)
- Increase SonicSound effectiveness vs none armor to 100 (from 60)
- Increase SonicSound effectiveness vs wood armor to 175 (from 85)
- Reduce SonicSound effectiveness vs light armor to 25 (from 80)
- Increase SonicSound effectiveness vs heavy armor at 50 (from 25)
- Increase SonicSound effectiveness vs concrete armor to 200 (from 75)
Last edited by Prince Blueblood on Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:08 am, edited 3 times in total.

Sircrashalot
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Post by Sircrashalot »

I have no clue about the current state of the game but in the past the Ordos Raider Rush was the most effective strat ever, at least on the small and medium 1on1 maps. You were easily able to delay your opponents economy and tech and follow up with troopers tanks and finish your opponent.

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Prince Blueblood
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Post by Prince Blueblood »

Sircrashalot wrote: I have no clue about the current state of the game but in the past the Ordos Raider Rush was the most effective strat ever, at least on the small and medium 1on1 maps. You were easily able to delay your opponents economy and tech and follow up with troopers tanks and finish your opponent.
I know this is the theory but...

I actually think the reverse, Trikes and Raiders as useless except for base defences against surprise infantry attacks in current unmodded state, having experienced killing some guys who try to rush me with raiders who lost against a bunch of riflemen and two combat tanks (I do lost some riflemen, but my enemy's economy end up crippled because his raider rush exterminated). That's why I actually buff trikes and raiders as well.

But that's said, that's why I put Troopers down the tech level, they can be trained directly from barracks, and they're actually outrange (the improved) trikes and raiders. If you train just two or three troopers, its your fault if they die (especially if your enemy has better micro than you), but if you train a handful of troopers, you should be safe (or better, train a combat tank)

Sircrashalot
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Post by Sircrashalot »

Prince Blueblood wrote:
Sircrashalot wrote: I have no clue about the current state of the game but in the past the Ordos Raider Rush was the most effective strat ever, at least on the small and medium 1on1 maps. You were easily able to delay your opponents economy and tech and follow up with troopers tanks and finish your opponent.
I know this is the theory but...

I actually think the reverse, Trikes and Raiders as useless except for base defences against surprise infantry attacks in current unmodded state, having experienced killing some guys who try to rush me with raiders who lost against a bunch of riflemen and two combat tanks (I do lost some riflemen, but my enemy's economy end up crippled because his raider rush exterminated). That's why I actually buff trikes and raiders as well.

But that's said, that's why I put Troopers down the tech level, they can be trained directly from barracks, and they're actually outrange (the improved) trikes and raiders. If you train just two or three troopers, its your fault if they die (especially if your enemy has better micro than you), but if you train a handful of troopers, you should be safe (or better, train a combat tank)
This is no theory. Noone was able to beat me back then. I have no clue what changed since then though. I wish you good luck with your project. Unfortunately you will need it :(

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Prince Blueblood
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Post by Prince Blueblood »

Sircrashalot wrote:
Prince Blueblood wrote: This is no theory. Noone was able to beat me back then. I have no clue what changed since then though. I wish you good luck with your project. Unfortunately you will need it :(
Hmm, perhaps the actual stats of trikes and raiders are actually changed between I start playing OpenRA, and you stop playing?

Oh well? Wanna play the Dune2K mod? With the latest unmodded Playtest version? :D

Because yeah, none was able to beat me recently too, thanks for infantry + Combat tank steamrolling

ADD :
Wait, I just read your balancement of Dune2K thread.
Did in older build, the heavy factory is either more expensive than $2000 or need another building to be build? Or did light factory was cheaper than $500?
Sircrashalot wrote: Hi OpenRa community and D2k lovers,

my plan is to improve the balance of D2k. I need people to help me though. Especially with testing the changes i made. Suggestions are welcome too.

The main problem right now is that Ordos raider trikes are too strong for their cost. They cost 300 (scout trike costs 250) but they are faster and stronger. The other problem is that they dont have a counter other than the combat tank. This often leads to an early imbalance especially with crates or if the spice fields are far from base.

The second problem right now is that infantry units apart from the rocket troopers are useless and a waste of money. Any suggestions here?

What do you guys think about redesigning the factions to be more different?

Greetings
Sircrashalot
yeah, the early viable counter of trikes and raiders are combat tank, and if the older build's combat tank is placed further back, it could be the very reasons of our very different perspectives regarding trikes and raiders ;) - (aka Raiders are OP compared with Raiders are useless)

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Prince Blueblood
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Post by Prince Blueblood »

Fixed the changelogs

Sircrashalot
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Post by Sircrashalot »

Oh well? Wanna play the Dune2K mod? With the latest unmodded Playtest version?
No thx. I might be interested in playing your mod though.

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Prince Blueblood
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Post by Prince Blueblood »

Sircrashalot wrote:
Oh well? Wanna play the Dune2K mod? With the latest unmodded Playtest version?
No thx. I might be interested in playing your mod though.
Have played the latest Stable release (29102014) and it seems there's little changes in the balance (due to little to no Dune2K players atm, I waited until I dried there lol before I decides to just play RA instead)

And yeah, siege and missile tanks is still more fragile than quads (they still hard countered by combat tanks as well), Harkonnen Atomics is still very underwhelming in performance, and Deviators is as OP as usual. No mobile detectors as well, causing invisible raiders - fremen being able to park themselves everywhere in hold fire without their enemies able to look for it (unless they build turrets near them but hey)

Yes I'm redoing this to be compatible with the latest stable release, but yeah, still need more inputs via MP games

Sircrashalot
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Post by Sircrashalot »

Prince Blueblood wrote:
Sircrashalot wrote:
Oh well? Wanna play the Dune2K mod? With the latest unmodded Playtest version?
No thx. I might be interested in playing your mod though.
Have played the latest Stable release (29102014) and it seems there's little changes in the balance (due to little to no Dune2K players atm, I waited until I dried there lol before I decides to just play RA instead)

And yeah, siege and missile tanks is still more fragile than quads (they still hard countered by combat tanks as well), Harkonnen Atomics is still very underwhelming in performance, and Deviators is as OP as usual. No mobile detectors as well, causing invisible raiders - fremen being able to park themselves everywhere in hold fire without their enemies able to look for it (unless they build turrets near them but hey)

Yes I'm redoing this to be compatible with the latest stable release, but yeah, still need more inputs via MP games
I had a similar problem. Hardly any feedback from the community. Noone seems to care about D2k.

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Prince Blueblood
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Post by Prince Blueblood »

And my attempt to port flamethrower infantry from RA to Dune2K (want to give Harkonnen flamethrowers like in EBFD) end up in disaster with exception outside bounds or something. Doh...

Oh right, I know already how to port units from RA to Tiberian Dawn, but why the same thing did not work in Dune2K?

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Prince Blueblood
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Location: Kudus

Post by Prince Blueblood »

And well, while at it, I think I will go for actually re-balancing the factions of Dune2000 like what the devs do with RA, and yeah, currently learning (the hard way with trial and errors) to edit Dune2k files.

What I want to do is a balanced but noticeably different three factions, but I don't want to just rip Emperor : Battle For Dune (still retaining Dune2k feel):
And Palace is now solely for Family Atomic superweapon (Ordos did not have this, but different superweapon due to their "intruder house" status)

the unit list so far :

House Atreides: Great House, Infantry heavy with air supremacy unit.

Infantry:
- Rifleman
- Grenadier
- Trooper
- Medic
- Engineer
- Fremen Fedaykin (rifle and grenades)

Light Vehicles:
- Trike
- Quad
- Sand Wagon (kinda fast but poorly armed APC)

Heavy Vehicles:
- Harvester
- Atreides Combat Tank (long range as usual)
- Minotaur Tank (Like EBFD Minotaur, but with tracks instead of legs, replacing siege tanks for Atreides)
- Rocket Tank (will be area-of-effect long range artillery)
- Sonic Tank
- MCV

Air Units:
- Carryall
- Gunship (basic air unit, like Yak, but functionally they're like Tiberium Wars Venom, weak attack, but not needing to reload)
- Ornithopter (Atreides' top notch air unit, armed with HE rockets, able to attack ground and air)

Superweapon:
- Family Atomic (since Ornithopter are now controllable unit, and canonically Atreides did use Atomics against Shield Wall...)


House Harkonnen: Great House, armored vehicles and brute force.

Infantry:
- Rifleman
- Trooper
- Flame Trooper (like EBFD flamethrower, maybe use RA Flamethrower instead)
- Engineer
- Heavy Trooper (like current Sardaukar, but visually different... - there will be House Corrino)

Light Vehicles:
- Trike
- Quad

Armored Vehicles:
- Harvester
- Ram Medium Tank (current Harkonnen Combat Tank, cheaper than Atreides combat tank)
- Troop Crawler (armored APC with good weapon)
- Siege Tank
- Gryphon Heavy Tank (heavier Harkonnen tank, expensive, but strong, armed with single barrel cannon, but also have anti-air missiles for secondary weapon)
- Rocket Tank
- Devastator (can self-destruct, only attack ground - quite fast for it's size, but death always come with explosion - they're plasma armed and fuelled, let's not turn it into another mammoth tank clone)
- MCV

Air Units:
- Carryall
- Gunship (yep, all get identical gunship unit)

Superweapon:
- Family Atomic


House Ordos: Will be revamped, of course they're subversive, micro heavy guys, they're not true great house but something more sinister (EBFD's executrix is... well, you can guess)

Infantry:
- Rifleman
- Trooper
- Medic
- Engineer
- Laser Trooper
- Saboteur (really a suicide bomber, but can hijack vehicles if needed, cloaked when not moving)

Light Vehicles:
- Raider
- Quad
- Sand Wagon
- Stealth Raider
- Deviator (they're now counted light unit, hopefully the temporary attack loyalty function worked, if not, they're better end up converting infantry with deviator gas instead of vehicles)

Heavy Vehicles:
- Harvester
- Viper light tank (current Ordos combat thank, the cheapest and fastest, but also weakest tank)
- Siege Tank
- Laser Tank (not EBFD hover-shielded-laser armed tank, but laser tank on tracks, still a bit fast, but not shielded. Unless you want nuke blast everytime laser armed units shot at them)
- MCV

Air Units:
- Carryall
- Gunship

Superweapon:
- Chaos Lightning (no, not the infighting lightning like EBFD, but perhaps a bit more powerful Ion Cannon like weapon)
* Yes, Ordos can't build Rocket Tanks like the original dune2k, they can still buy them at starport)


House Corrino: Emperor's house, expensive unit varieties, but they're elite troops.

Infantry:
- Rifleman
- Trooper
- Engineer
- Sardaukar (yep, sardaukar is now their heavy lifting infantry due to their limited rooster)
- Elite Sardaukar

Light Vehicles: NONE ; Corrino can't build light vehicles (but can buy trikes and quads at starport)

Heavy Vehicles:
- Harvester
- Ram Medium Tank (Harkonnen combat tank, a nod to Original Dune2K using Harkonnen as base to Corrino)
- Troop Crawler
- Rocket Tank
- Lion Navigator Tank (Mammoth-tank clone, with Chrono-Tank teleport features due to Navigator inside)

Air Units:
- Carryall
- Navigator Gunship (better armed air unit, can teleport like NIAP gunships in EBFD since there's Navigator inside)

Superweapon:
- Family Atomic

Sircrashalot
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:08 pm

Post by Sircrashalot »

I made a Ordos chemical trooper. You can change him to fit the harkonnen flamethrower if you want.

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Prince Blueblood
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Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:32 am
Location: Kudus

Post by Prince Blueblood »

yeah, ordos chem troops, the meatshield only infantry in ebfd :lol:

even atreides and harkonnen light infantry have more uses than them :D

btw, currently working on balance tests, need more input by playing nonmodded dune2k mps (so could know the effects on masssed vs massed attacks (to observe siege tank splash behaviour and the others targetting), the AI sucks because they attack frequently but in small packets)

umairazfar
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:01 pm

Post by umairazfar »

I believe that if you make single player maps rather than rebalancing, it will be more useful.

rebalancing means that you find enough people to appreciate the changes you made. If you do not get to gather enough people, then all the effort will be wasted, unless you have friends that play your mod.

I made my own crossfire mod for RA and ran into this problem. Therefore I resorted to making single player maps, so if someone wants to enjoy some new single player missions, they got to download my mod and play my mod using my changes

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