Happy wrote: ↑
Yes I did know that I was trying to be sarcastic and a smart ass to make a point about acronyms thanks.
You should stop going down this path because you are arguing for the sake of argument. I never call them e3, despite that fact it is an 'official name.' Im sorry that you want to throw logic out of window and appropriate everything to RA terms, like stutter step. I prefer to use terms so they don't confuse other people. Like calling it fast WF. Because in no sense of the word is it a WF first. Also, what point is starting a fight over semantics? Are you really that opposed to actually listening to what I have to say, as a TD and RA player, and discussing in a civil manner?
The other mods aren't as different as you think. It's naive to say that because of different units the games are entirely different. A lot of TD units are replaceable by RA units but no vice versa eg. a recon bike is literally just 2 very fast rocketmen but TD will never have a minelayer. So basically, RA can be TD but TD can't be RA.
I'm not suggesting that all OpenRA mods should homogenise (and it should be like TD), I'm asking WHY MUST IT BE THIS WAY? Why must RA have probably 3x as many unit types while having about 3x less build order options? Why must deciding to WF first be considered cheese?
Within the first 4-5 slots of build orders, RA is completely limited to two primary build orders.. Your options are pp-rax-ref-wf-pp or pp-rax-ref-ref-pp.
In TD my options are:
These are just the builds where I want to keep playing into the later game. There is a good 3 or more cheese builds.
Maybe you might understand why this is something I don't like about RA. I like having a smorgasbord of build orders to choose from that I know are viable to play with. I like being able to make full use of the all units I can, while knowing that they wont signify the end of a game. Maybe this is the way OpenRA TD was designed or maybe its because every unit actually having a set role, widens gameplay.
OMnom wrote: ↑
The multiqueue has more of an impact than just the extra queue...i'm trying to point out that scaling is completely different in TD. Your units and structures are balanced to account for the fact that its possible to build 2 MCVs at a time or to have 2 pocket Adv Guard towers. If TD had ClassicProductionQueue, and if you rebalanced that game to accommodate for it, that game would be just as non-dynamic as RA is. By definition, being able to only build units 1 at a time, and having the game balanced around that === linear. Obviously, I'm no TD expert, but the multiqueue is a huge part of why TD is different from RA. The eco scaling is also different, but economy only determines how quickly a game progresses , not how fast your units scales (i.e, multiplicative vs percentage-growth).
This is not true at all for playing 1v1 in TD. 2 MCVs are never built in a 1v1 unless one person is ages ahead or wants to lose. It takes about a minute and ~4000 to make an MCV. This was stopped because double MCV was the thing, 3 years ago. Now in TD we run around with our original MCV, which actually stops building and defense production. TD pretty much acts as ClassicProductionQueue until about 4-6 minutes when players will build their second WF or second barracks. So basically, while the units are (in your opinion) balanced for 2 MCV's, they seem to do fine with one MCV production queue. The only true benefit of 2mcv in TD is for making refineries, then scaling does become an issue.
You would think that TD ends up with more units at the end of a game due to the production ability but I'd argue that at the end of a RA game, more assests and more money has been gobbled up than in a TD game and as such, more production. Why? Because MCV's are like the plague in RA. Id argue that any game going beyond 10 minutes has 3 MCVs and most of the maps expansions taken over. This is exponentially more expansions then TD. At ten minutes, I'm usually looking to move out for my third expansion. Also, in TD, I actually have real money problems. In RA, most of my money problems stem from "How am i going to spend all this money?"
OMnom wrote: ↑
I don't want to derail the "medic" thread any further, but its probably too late for that..
It's hard to respond to things with out going off topic. I think my post might be the final nail in the medic, so good thing I'm not a mod.
This is why I preferred the way you started earlier of having one post. Balance discussion on one topic often leads to others.
Idk if posts can be moved but I'd move everything after the yak to the Balance OpenRA thread.