Playtest Review Thread

[Sleipnir]

Thank you 3.Lucian and Happy for explaining why you don't like the stance changes. These plus OMnom's posts have provided some points to consider.

[Blackened]

I just wanted to chime in quickly that I think one the problems with the stance changes is a direct result of cell logic in this game. Infantry being the bulk of your army in RA means they have to move into the cell and stop before returning fire. An aggressive stance makes units chase too much. I think it was the last release rocket soldiers were adjusted so that they stopped chasing at their AA gun range. Remember how they used to run and get themselves killed? Everyone hated that. Now the aggressive stance reverted that change only now its every unit will run and get themselves killed.

I also want to say that there are plenty of changes I really like. Installing maps from the replay browser cuts down on a lot of headaches. Additionally letting control+rally point set primary is wonderful for someone like me who uses left click orders. Before I'd often highlight buildings and change every rally point rather than just set primary.

[IronScion]

Having played several games on the playtest now, here's my 2c on the stances: I think the new default unit stance (not attacking buildings) is a fun development and could add new strategic depth. However, I don't think it suits being the default stance. It feels more to me like an alternative stance that adept players could use to clear and engi-cap a base.

On the new noise that has enraged Happy: seemed odd at first but I'm not against it.

On the new stance bar: I really appreciate the thought and effort that has gone into this, and I think it could be excellent for new players, as a kind of stepping stone to hot-keying stances, however, I've barely looked at the thing while playing and if there was a toggle on/off switch for it I would have switched it off.

On changes to building hitboxes: I love this change in general, but on the Soscared playtest stream, someone mentioned that the tesla weapon looks a bit weird hitting the building's edge and I agree. Given the choice, I'd like to see the tesla weapon aim for the centre of buildings.

[AoAGeneral1]

The interesting point to take from all this is some of the RAGL players don't know all the command queue keys that aren't listed in the hotkey system that is in many of the RTS genres.

Leaves me to believe that if this was takened advantage of the issues regarding the stance changes wouldn't be much of an issue at all as it provides more control on top of control itself.

Your biggest example is SCBW where they attack buildings with every attack but once an enemy unit comes in range/fires on the unit they will switch and engage that target instead. The problem of this for ORA is you often times don't want units to be switching targets when using 1A.

Im rather accustomed to both CNC3 methods of attacks and SCBW itself. A few many of the genres are rather samiliar. (I think with the exception of Universe at War).

[JuiceBox]

The interesting point to take from all this is some of the RAGL players don't know all the command queue keys that aren't listed in the hotkey system that is in many of the RTS genres.

Leaves me to believe that if this was takened advantage of the issues regarding the stance changes wouldn't be much of an issue at all as it provides more control on top of control itself.

Your biggest example is SCBW where they attack buildings with every attack but once an enemy unit comes in range/fires on the unit they will switch and engage that target instead. The problem of this for ORA is you often times don't want units to be switching targets when using 1A.

Im rather accustomed to both CNC3 methods of attacks and SCBW itself. A few many of the genres are rather samiliar. (I think with the exception of Universe at War).

What the hell has this got to do with the price of fish????

You don't have to make RA a bastardised version of every other game in the RTS world. SCBW and CNC3 this game is not !

The charm of Ra is that it's simple and easy to play. Start adding ridiculous features and layers complexity to an otherwise simple easy going game is questionable. I constantly hear that the idea is to keep to script and not move too far away from the originals essence. Well that seems to come into play when ever the hell it suites them.

Do you guys truly believe it's the lack of these kind of features that is holding ora back? If we implement this type of stuff we will get on par with other RTS games?

Maybe the issue is the bucket of shit user interface we have in lobbys. Lack of accounts and a decent forum that makes this game less professional. I can't believe that ORA dosnt have its own forum it's a half arsed effort and a tag on to another forum. For the first time player these features would give them a better first impression. That's how you keep the attracted new players give them a sense of legitimacy. Maybe this is the area you guys should be focusing on ?????

I have now officially tried the new test.....
First impression .. whatever

You just made the learning curve X10 harder for rookies is my opinion. The feature changes nothing. Solves nothing it serves no purpose other than its own existence. Alot of work for nothing imo. Next release can you maybe work on some core issues instead please?

[Sleipnir]

JuiceBox, please tone down on the attitude. You should be able to explain your points without insulting the people who volunteer their time to work on OpenRA. If you think you can do better or would like to see a different set of issues be worked on, then your contributions are welcome and just as valid as anybody elses.

[JuiceBox]

Am sorry I'll try reign in the attitude am afraid I don't even notice it.
Think of it this way. I post because I care

Am not shitting on the work you have all put in at all. I am simply confused by the direction.

Am I not making valid point tho ????

My first post on this site was " I don't know if this is the right place but..." If that was mine I am sure it is others.

New forum Open Ra. sub forums for all mods that's linked to the main DL website make it all look legit and professional

Improve the lobby UI. A decent global chat u can see whilst in a lobby and not have to switch between the two. Be able to switch admin without having to all leave re enter to switch admins. Be able to look at other lobby's without having to leave. Make hosting your own lobby easier or give a tutorial. Nickname change without having to fight with the last nickname.
Accounts!

First impressions count

In game stuff
Harvester AI
Improved Pathfinding
Decent unit formations
Directional para bobs and para drops
Fix APC exit cell so the contents don't take damage as well
And everything else that's been asked to looked at and fixed

Would it not make sense to fix the issues at hand before introducing more potential problems?

At the moment I feel like Ra is like that restaurant that everyone passes by because it looks abit old and out dated with wobbly tables and miss matched cutlery but the food is fantastic. The new patch is like a brand new meal on the menu but it dosnt matter because the restaurant is still old has wobbly tables and mismatched cutlery

Am I not making any sense at all ????

[Materianer]

the players must be heard it is our game otherwise some weird change like bounty removal will come into place.

I know it's not the topic here but now that you spoke this out, what do you think is wrong with removing kill bounties?
It would only have a small effect on gameplay and i bet you wouldn't even notice it.
A good thing with bountieremoval is that you don't have all these senseless numbers if a units is killed, what makes the game look better.
If you want to try this you are welcome to test

http://resource.openra.net/maps/20699/
Tournament Island No Bounties
http://resource.openra.net/maps/20698/
Doubles No Bounties
http://resource.openra.net/maps/22133/
Ore Gardens No Bounties

Here is the discussion for this:
http://www.sleipnirstuff.com/forum/view ... 82&t=20069

[JuiceBox]

http://www.sleipnirstuff.com/forum/view ... ash+bounty

If u want to revive a 3 month old argument it's here

[Clockwork]

the players must be heard it is our game otherwise some weird change like bounty removal will come into place.

I know it's not the topic here but now that you spoke this out, what do you think is wrong with removing kill bounties?
It would only have a small effect on gameplay and i bet you wouldn't even notice it.
A good thing with bountieremoval is that you don't have all these senseless numbers if a units is killed, what makes the game look better.
If you want to try this you are welcome to test

http://resource.openra.net/maps/20699/
Tournament Island No Bounties
http://resource.openra.net/maps/20698/
Doubles No Bounties
http://resource.openra.net/maps/22133/
Ore Gardens No Bounties

Here is the discussion for this:
http://www.sleipnirstuff.com/forum/view ... 82&t=20069

My arguments for keeping it is it helps progress the games. It rewards players slightly for being better. It provides income for players on low eco maps and rewards them for fighting constantly to get money. It helps out players who are choosing the tech route and have been confined into a corner they need income this is how I see fiveaces come from the death many a time.It rewards better micro as the side with the less losses and more kills gains more money. It's a good comeback mechanic but not a disgustingly strong one. It's popular among the high level players. The discussion to remove it brought Gatekeeper out to put it down which is rare. Like what Gatekeeper said the money coming up is a dopamine shot and also confirms a kill. If I see a lot of cash signs I know I'm doing something right. I've seen no complaints about it up untill Ganon kicked up a stink on it and a few players jumped the band wagon to remove it, eerily similar to nobody asking for the building target change. That's my argument for keeping the kill bounties.

[SoScared]

Minor detail about the stances: I thought OpenRA is about keeping the game close to its original, while modernizing the gameplay. So adjusting the gameplay to make it more similar to the original doesnt really make sense.

Unless it turns out the original gameplay is actual better ofcourse than in the previous release. That is something we should test alot before concluding its worse.

As I see it this needs to be addressed if this conversation is to move forward in any meaningful way.

Also I'm very much concerned about the disconnect between the IRC and the playing community when it comes to this playtest. I've partially brought up Discord as a a voice on the matter and I'm not sure the IRC crew are properly aware on how large and fast that particular community has grown the past 6 months under supervision of Raishiwi. I've recently participated more in that realm simply because of its sheer size and influence and as mentioned above the OpenRA community has turned a bit nomadic with this forum as its center. In fact the forum is being neglected more and more as a sphere of influence in favor of IRC and Discord and I don't see that trend turning anytime soon.

Personally I'm quickly losing interest in standing in the middle like an idiot trying to understand and pull together the vision of these spheres. It's almost comedic seeing how these parts are dependent on each other without really realizing it. The nuts and bolts are the 100% voluntary work of everyone involved and if people on each side think that there's no consequence to alienating one another they're in for a big wake-up call sooner rather than later.

Unfortunately on the developer side it's intense work with little appreciation and at the end of the day they stand alone staking out the path forward with limited support from the community forming around them. I don't know how it's supposed to work and besides I've had my own agenda in this anarcho-puzzle. If it were a business there'd be clear guidelines and a clear path ahead, but it's not and the only reward is that the work appears meaningful to the people involved.

So with that obvious speech fluff I'm off this forum topic for this playtest cycle.

[maceman]

What the hell has this got to do with the price of fish????

Yea I was completely confused by that post too.

In game stuff
Harvester AI
Improved Pathfinding

Looks like there have been improvements made to these looking at the changelog:

https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/wiki/C ... 363f146422

To be fair, there isn't anything really stopping anyone trying to add / fix the things you've said, but I guess as it's all voluntary, it probably comes down to some of those things would be boring and time consuming to fix?

Either ways, there's so many good fixes and updates in the changelog. It's only mainly the default stance, and the sounds from the new bar that not everyone likes as far as I can tell.

[Materianer]

My arguments for keeping it is it helps progress the games. It rewards players slightly for being better.

It helps progress the game, but the diffrence is really slight and hardly noticeable change.
Yes it slightly rewards player for being better and that is bad for newbies and not so skilled players. Theoretical it would help openra to bind new players to the game.

It provides income for players on low eco maps and rewards them for fighting constantly to get money.

I will add some low eco map to the maps to test if a change on such a map is more noticeable. You have any suggestion for a map?

It helps out players who are choosing the tech route

lol that is definitly wrong you should first try the maps before speaking out such thesis.
And the argue for a comeback mechanic is also weak, of course in the case if someone looses all his stuff and escapes with his mcv he could theoratically earn the money for a restart. But this is a really rare case and often just a base wich will be cleaned later in game.

It's popular among the high level players.

Another unproven statement and did those "high level players" even try the maps?

[Clockwork]

1. if it's so unnoticeable why should it be removed. If it aint broke dont fix it is a big part of the current troubles. The notion of making the game noob friendly is kind of void with the new changes basically messing around the game in a confusing manner.

2. Keep off the grass 2, patches(please no) desert rats, winter storm.

3. If you choose the tech route you are sacrificing expansions to gain an advantage in tech. Tech which can be used to make excellent engagements that give a good cash out to the tech player. There's many a game that has been prevented from ending for 10 minutes maybe because the other player is out microing the player in a way the cash bounties so high its keeping them afloat best example is Fiveaces except he can comeback from very bad situations and win.

4. It's proven by the fact the only people wanting it gone from apparent vision were Ganon AoA Anjew and PChote (allegedly from ganon). The rest were either silent or gave vocal support in game or on the forum. They didn't play the maps because there was zero concern about bounties and nobody wanted them gone that is why - the vast majority was perfectly content with the bounties.

[netnazgul]

I'd say that there should be an option to just hide bounty popups. Their impact looks quite unsubstantial anyway, but those number poppings are just cheap and korean MMO-like, decent RTS should not do such things

Also this topic is a bit out of scope of OP.