Let's talk about RA's Navy

AKA Blackened's Naval Balance testing

Discussion about the game and its default mods.
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avalach21
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Post by avalach21 » Mon May 08, 2017 9:38 am

SirCake wrote: @blackened: ok to everything you said. looking forward to sub transports :)

The C) or "double shot issue" is about something different: If you attack a ground target with the destroyer stinger and then retarget (for example by pressing "S") onto an air target, the destroyer instantly shoots again. No rearm time. So this leads to beeing able to turn any air attack on a destroyer into a desaster simply by pressing "S". You can even micro and switch back and forth between ground/air targets doubling the damage output of the destroyers. That has got to be fixed...
(I think this is because there are 2 independent weapons for sea/air targets -> merge them, be fine)

@avalanch: the heli carrier simply looks super ugly^^
I agree, it does look pretty hideous. Especially awkward how it can intake a capacity of 5 helicopters.. makes no sense. If it were to ever be included I would say it should have 1 capacity, just as a standard helipad, only it would be mobile and on the water so you could have closer ammo restocks on the go.

Not the biggest fan of the sub transport idea, especially having it carry a vehicle that makes no sense at all. Putting an MCV or a Mammoth into a Sub? lol. Theres no huge issue if it has a single infantry capacity but all in all I don't think it's really worth making a change like that since it really isn't that useful IMO.

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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday » Mon May 08, 2017 9:55 am

avalach21 wrote: Not the biggest fan of the sub transport idea, especially having it carry a vehicle that makes no sense at all. Putting an MCV or a Mammoth into a Sub? lol. Theres no huge issue if it has a single infantry capacity but all in all I don't think it's really worth making a change like that since it really isn't that useful IMO.
Seconded.

Instead of using subs players may just produce single transport ship. They seem super nice with their new 12 transport capacity. If you control water, it's going to be more or less impossible to spot a transport ship play... Except with current balance where soviets require tech center for naval AA. This could be fixed quite easily if we change missile sub to radar dome tech.
The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.
-Sun Tzu

SirCake
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Post by SirCake » Mon May 08, 2017 1:17 pm

Played some more games, all more or less ending the same way..
With a transport rush ^^ Landings are the way-to-go here. Ignore navy at start (or invest weakly) advance on ground and challenge the opponent, then load all troops into transports and backstab with a giant hammer :lol:

Image
Needless to say, transports are too fast :)

@blackened: please include the map "Synergy" in your next iteration!
Attachments
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Last edited by SirCake on Mon May 08, 2017 1:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Murto the Ray
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Post by Murto the Ray » Mon May 08, 2017 1:22 pm

Just throwing ideas around here, why not remove/extremely reduce the detection range of all naval vehicles and then make sub-cloaking a timed upgrade activated by deploying them.

Firing could still only be done from above the water but it makes the cloak scale with the user's ability.

SirCake
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Post by SirCake » Mon May 08, 2017 1:35 pm

@Murto: thats not how subs work :D They are SUBMERGED unless they HAVE to surface. thats the whole point ;)

reaperrr
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Post by reaperrr » Mon May 08, 2017 5:32 pm

SirCake wrote: The C) or "double shot issue" is about something different: If you attack a ground target with the destroyer stinger and then retarget (for example by pressing "S") onto an air target, the destroyer instantly shoots again. No rearm time. So this leads to beeing able to turn any air attack on a destroyer into a desaster simply by pressing "S". You can even micro and switch back and forth between ground/air targets doubling the damage output of the destroyers. That has got to be fixed...
(I think this is because there are 2 independent weapons for sea/air targets -> merge them, be fine)
It is possible to fix this without merging them, in case you guys would prefer to keep the range bonus vs. air targets.
We could use a shared ammo pool like the Apache does (but with invisible pips and self-reloading, of course).

Blackened
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Post by Blackened » Mon May 08, 2017 7:26 pm

I wonder if it's possible to change the transport speed when full so that it is slower allowing an empty one to be a bit faster? Regardless I think the speed needs a change.

For the record, when I referred to the double shot problem I wanted to point out that it also effects depth charges. Destroyers in theory have a triple shot problem since they have 3 armaments. :eek:
Last edited by Blackened on Mon May 08, 2017 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Frame_Limiter
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Post by Frame_Limiter » Mon May 08, 2017 7:53 pm

@Blackened,
Yes, you can give the transport a modified speed while loaded if you wanted:

This below will make it 25% slower if it contains cargo.
LST:
->SpeedMultiplier@LOADED
-->RequiresCondition: Loaded
-->Modifier: 75
->Cargo:
-->LoadedCondition: Loaded

*You can also make it actor specific by using PassengerConditions:
https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/wiki/Traits#cargo

Murto the Ray
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Post by Murto the Ray » Wed May 10, 2017 9:09 am

SirCake wrote: -Snip-
And submarines don't actually surface to fire torpedoes. I'm just throwing ideas around anyways :P

zinc
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Post by zinc » Wed May 10, 2017 10:02 am

I don't know how good migs are against allies naval right now, (I stick with yaks), but if they aren't so good, maybe they could be buffed to be able to counter destroyers with the proper micro of them?

Murto the Ray
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Post by Murto the Ray » Wed May 10, 2017 11:28 am

zinc wrote: -Snip-
They do pretty good damage but they take far too much to make them worth it.

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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday » Wed May 10, 2017 11:43 am

zinc wrote: I don't know how good migs are against allies naval right now, (I stick with yaks), but if they aren't so good, maybe they could be buffed to be able to counter destroyers with the proper micro of them?
I am not a fan of adjusting mig vs destroyer balance for turning migs into a hard counter.

My reasoning:

1) It would only work in high skill games because only better players would be able to micro migs. In a perfect world game balance works for all skill levels.
2) Unit with AA weapon not acting as a counter feels counter intuitive.
The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.
-Sun Tzu

zinc
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Post by zinc » Wed May 10, 2017 12:20 pm

I can agree with your second point about them being an AA weapon. Yes it would be counter-intuitive.

I would argue your first point but as I'm agreeing with your second point...

SirCake
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Post by SirCake » Thu May 11, 2017 10:33 am

You might also want to change the default stance of the attack sub to "attack anything" (currently "hold fire").
To me it allways appeared weird that the pro setting is the default, and the noob setting isn't. Most of the time I cycle through stances, to prevent my subs idling while beeing detroyed by allied ships or to kill navyards automaticaly when beeing built nearby.

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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday » Thu May 11, 2017 11:30 am

SirCake wrote: You might also want to change the default stance of the attack sub to "attack anything" (currently "hold fire").
To me it allways appeared weird that the pro setting is the default, and the noob setting isn't.
Oh my god yes this.
The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.
-Sun Tzu

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