Shocktroopers and Teslatanks zapping over walls ?

JOo · Post by **JOo** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:56 am

so i have a ticket here that i've made a year ago ... https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/issues/11050 and i either just want to finally close it ... or put some attention to it to find out if it is actually an issue for anyone (and if so, raise the pressure for a change)

So the idea is to still allow Tesla-Coils zapping over a walls, but not shocktroopers and/or teslatanks

I could imagine this to slightly help in terms of "ukraine vs russia" gameplay ... as a simple solution to stop a blob of teslatroopers raiding ...

but im not really a soviet-player, so thats why i'd be interested on how this could effect the balance

Smitty · Post by **Smitty** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:12 am

I don't think this would change much one way or the other. Just keep in mind without shocktroopers shooting over walls we woudn't have this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDiAlK2P7Lo

RadicalEdward2 · Post by **RadicalEdward2** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:15 am

Teslas should always be able to arc over walls. It's part of their perks.

The only reason they couldn't do that in RA2 was because their tech was downgraded as a result of their defeat from the past war (RA1).

JOo · Post by **JOo** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:33 am

tesla-coils shooting over walls would make sense in a way that the are just "higher" then walls ... or what is the reason for turrets getting blocked by walls?

I'd assume that troopers and/or teslatank shouldnt just shoot over it because they have less height.

i know it would sound strange that unit-height does have any meaning in openra ... but "balance" isnt the reason why turrets get blocked by walls. Wouldnt it make sense for a turret to shoot over a wall ? i mean from a base-defending perspective ... keeping the defense-structures and buildings behind walls ...

or what is the scientific reason for a zap getting "bended" over a wall and hit a target without having the attacker have actually visual contact of the enemy unit ?

As said , a Teslacoil makes sense ... but infantry and tanks ?

noobmapmaker · Post by **noobmapmaker** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:49 am

Seems unlogical to me (b.o. Height), but logic is not always what counts. And perhaps their charge seeks the target?

JOo · Post by **JOo** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:56 am

JOo · Post by **JOo** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:25 am

noobmapmaker wrote: ↑And perhaps their charge seeks the target?

That seem to be made up out of thin air and not quite a satisfying explanation ... considering that there wasnt any "thoughts" that did go into "unit" -teslazaps when the new bullet-block-mechanic got introduced ...

and that is what it gets handled as, in openra ... "as bullet" having the exception of not getting blocked by walls ... not as "guided" missile

klaas · Post by **klaas** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:24 am

If we apply this logic, also rocket soldiers should not be able to shoot over walls.

Walls are pretty strong as they are, I don't think we need to make them any stronger by blocking more weapon types.

Doomsday · Post by **Doomsday** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:31 am

I think all tesla weapons shooting over walls is a cool and interesting feature. I would not remove or change it.

JOo · Post by **JOo** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:31 am

klaas wrote: ↑If we apply this logic, also rocket soldiers should not be able to shoot over walls.

well the missiles "are" guided in the openra-rules ... and theres a strong similarity to todays missile-infrared guidance

anyway, i have not really a big interest on nitpicking here ... though i find it funny that theres so many people that think that its a problem to have hinds on allies side but dont give a flying f on the rest of the lost reality-reference especially towards weapon-logic

Doomsday wrote: ↑I think all tesla weapons shooting over walls is a cool and interesting feature. I would not remove or change it.

its not a feature , its a decision probably made by a single contributer at the time when "collision detection for missiles and bullets" got introduced, though a tesla-zap is considered as bullet ingame and it got the exception of not being effected by collision-detection either on purpose or accidental ... but in any event, without discussing it with the community beforehand

some could even see it as a bug

DrLuke · Post by **DrLuke** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:12 pm

Fact is: Shockies are extremely powerful when combined with walls. But then again, allies have the artillery which is the perfect counter for infantry.

It doesn't feel wildly unbalanced, as shockies + walls aren't a definitive game winner, so I'd keep it as it is.

Post by **abcdefg30** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:17 pm

RadicalEdward2 wrote: ↑Teslas should always be able to arc over walls. It's part of their perks.

The only reason they couldn't do that in RA2 was because their tech was downgraded as a result of their defeat from the past war (RA1).

If I remember correctly, Tesla Tanks could also shoot over walls in RA2.

klaas · Post by **klaas** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:39 pm

JOo wrote: ↑ well the missiles "are" guided in the openra-rules ... and theres a strong similarity to todays missile-infrared guidance

You still need to see the target before you can guide a missile anywhere. Also todays infrared guided RPGs are not fired over walls, but rather with direct vision of the target.

JOo · Post by **JOo** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:54 pm

klaas wrote: ↑
JOo wrote: ↑ well the missiles "are" guided in the openra-rules ... and theres a strong similarity to todays missile-infrared guidance
You still need to see the target before you can guide a missile anywhere. Also todays infrared guided RPGs are not fired over walls, but rather with direct vision of the target.

not saying that its a perfect explanation ... but heat-seeking-infrared-guidance is giving atleast a whiff of a fantasy that i could agree with (for missiles)

i wonder if you could also zap over walls with shocks and ttanks in the original red alert

regardless, ill wait a day for any more votes ... and then close the 1-year-old ticket (unless the votes going towards it being an issue)

RadicalEdward2 · Post by **RadicalEdward2** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:59 pm

JOo wrote: ↑
noobmapmaker wrote: ↑And perhaps their charge seeks the target?
That seem to be made up out of thin air and not quite a satisfying explanation ... considering that there wasnt any "thoughts" that did go into "unit" -teslazaps when the new bullet-block-mechanic got introduced ...

and that is what it gets handled as, in openra ... "as bullet" having the exception of not getting blocked by walls ... not as "guided" missile

Just to play Kane's Advocate, M1 Abrams are present in RA's WW2 even though they didn't exist for another 40-ish years. So, seeking charges sounds normal to me lol