The Huey is now complete

Mortecha · Post by **Mortecha** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:16 am

SoScared wrote: ↑
Mortecha wrote: ↑Firstly I didn't misrepresent your intention. I am not working for you to further your goals. Also your intention wasn't in the clear to be misrepresented in the first place. ...
Oh please stop your "I don't work for you" tirade - you pulled that same crap with others in the community earlier when they argued against you.

Not sure what your talking about there man, and what tirade is this?. What is wrong dude? The best thing we can do is communicate. I though after yesterdays discussion on IRC we had solved what ever this is. Also you didn't answer my question regarding intention either, not that you have to but it would help with understanding the situation better, don't you think?.

SoScared wrote: ↑From the github issue and comment you knew pretty well I didn't care at all about the Cobra .shp not looking like a real Cobra so that narrows the rest of your comment down a bit doesn't it.

Well that's probably the issue then.

SoScared wrote: ↑I'm not here to dilute your topic - just that discussing with you is like discussing with a moving target.

Dilute away, you have already started, may as well keep on going:P

SoScared · Post by **SoScared** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:28 am

If you insist.

Right. So you've argued consistently that the core of the issue is that the Cobra does not look like a Cobra. That the criteria for a good Hind make-over is for it to closely resemble the unit it is supposed to change into. However you've projected that intention over to me and then subsequently judged me on the basis of how well have I fulfilled that intention. Which in this case would be poorly.

Correct?

SoScared · Post by **SoScared** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:39 am

Mortecha wrote: ↑Absolutely, in future there will hopefully not be an adversarial climate for more tact to be able to be utilised.

Not mutually exclusive IMO. Else nothing would get done.

Mortecha · Post by **Mortecha** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:39 am

SoScared wrote: ↑If you insist.

Right. So you've argued consistently that the core of the issue is that the Cobra does not look like a Cobra. That the criteria for a good Hind make-over is for it to closely resemble the unit it is supposed to change into. However you've projected that intention over to me and then subsequently judged me on the basis of how well have I fulfilled that intention. Which in this case would be poorly.

Correct?

Correct, you are calling a Cobra aren't you?

But why are you avoiding the question about intention my good man. I am perplexed about it. Am I correct?

SoScared · Post by **SoScared** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:42 am

Jesus.

Mortecha · Post by **Mortecha** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:49 am

SoScared wrote: ↑
Mortecha wrote: ↑Absolutely, in future there will hopefully not be an adversarial climate for more tact to be able to be utilised.
Not mutually exclusive IMO. Else nothing would get done.

Well not in the way that all this has come about. There would have to be cooperation and communication for that to be effective.

SoScared wrote: ↑ Jesus.

What's wrong with that? That's how one judges, forms opinions or creates criticism, the constructive sort not the childish nitpicking sort. If you are astounded by that then you need to learn not to be. Or perhaps you are referring to an imaginary alternative Cobra that looks like a Hind with a single canopy and no stub wings right??:P

You are competing with me on something that I spent alot of time working on to make it as appropriate and fitting as possible that solves an issue I felt needed to be solved. Something that is a far better solution than simply a hind that has had afew minor edits to try and make it pass for a Cobra, which you began to do after I had raised the issue.

And hell you may even be using your influence and standing in this community to make your solution seem the best one. That is an assumption btw, but plausible. And you don't even make art, So I'm confused by what you're trying to do lol.

Well you're pissed about something, it would be helpful if you actually elaborated on what that is instead of leaving the community outside your close circle guessing.

On another note, the cameo has been updated once again through afew minor tweaks to sharpness as it was more blurred than the vanilla cameos before making it stand out abit.

SoScared · Post by **SoScared** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:06 am

Alright seems we've more or less settled this idiocy on IRC. Looking back it was all totally unnecessary and I apologize for bloating the topic.

ACM · Post by **ACM** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:31 am

A valiant effort Mortecha. A reimagination of the Hind into something like the Huey is something I'd been hoping for myself. I wish you the best of luck in getting this passed into the release build.

If I may suggest something, if you want to truly distinguish it from the Longbow, and how I would have imagined it, is to make the player colour palette on the Huey darker or at least neutral toned in the same vein as the Hind is right now.

Mortecha · Post by **Mortecha** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:32 am

SoScared wrote: ↑Alright seems we've more or less settled this idiocy on IRC. Looking back it was all totally unnecessary and I apologize for bloating the topic.

We have and I'm glad we did. Apology accepted, and If I have offended you in any way I apologize for that.

ACM wrote: ↑A valiant effort Mortecha. A reimagination of the Hind into something like the Huey is something I'd been hoping for myself. I wish you the best of luck in getting this passed into the release build.

If I may suggest something, if you want to truly distinguish it from the Longbow, and how I would have imagined it, is to make the player colour palette on the Huey darker or at least neutral toned in the same vein as the Hind is right now.

Thanks for the kind words ACM:)

I'll investigate further ways to make this unit less similar to the Apache.

Materianer · Post by **Materianer** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:55 am

SoScared wrote: ↑Looks to be some confusion as to what the Cobra PR is about: https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/pull/12831

In essence it's a renamed Hind - not a Cobra/Hind hybrid. As per PR the changes to the unit .shp are negligible and that's with intent. Except for the name change and the fire animation you'd barely notice the difference. Personally I don't care for adding new units to the game nor tweaking assets beyond recognition. As mentioned in the PR the Hind suffers uniquely by carrying the name of a Soviet unit and that's what the PR aims at specifically.

@SoScared
I called it like that because if you just take the Hind make some little changes and call it Cobra it is just something, no Cobra and no Hind.
This is feeling wrong and should not be done just because of this "anything must be done" feeling.

Then the fact that the min range of it has been changed just to make it look better with one frontal gun is not good.

All in all that is just a bad solution for me and the PR came much too hasty.

Why do'nt you make a map with the changed unit? Then evryone could test it and make his own opinion about your heli.

Oh i just seen both PR's has been closed that it somehow reasonable.

Btw reasonable is something you both should be @SoScared and @Mortecha
Better you work together and find a good solution for this (If this is generally possible)

SoScared · Post by **SoScared** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:57 am

Yeah that's a fair assessment. Got way too much involved in this case.

Mortecha · Post by **Mortecha** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:32 am

You're right Materianer. I got way too competitive with this one, I'm generally pretty relaxed. Because of that I was unable to do any of this in an orderly and reasonable fashion.

Clockwork · Post by **Clockwork** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:17 pm

This is really starting to bug me now, and now its even causing arguments this needs to stop,

If you're upset the allies have hinds then how about we rename the hind to "Gunship" or "Attack Helicopter" This would literally solve the problem of new players asking why Allies have hinds, cause they wont be hinds therefore no problem. We have "Medium Tank" why cant we use this logic on air units. The hind model we have right now looks nothing like a hind and to illustrate it i asked some of my friends who have never played OpenRA before, they called it "A sardine with propellers" and "opened toothpaste". Too me it looks like a generic attack helicopter in a 2D sprite form.

The problem with your helicopter is that if I unzoom I will 8/10 times think its a longbow. At least with the hind model at the moment i know the big long black thing is my hinds.

But like if we want to apply this logic of realism and making everything fancy i propose that riflemen of both faction must now have discernible AK47 and M16 models cause the rifleman model is the same and I feel like im fighting with unrealistic troops :l

This needs to be put to bed and more important matters attended to like the next release or the release of the RAGL map pool

Mortecha · Post by **Mortecha** » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:19 am

You're a little late to the party Rexxy

, everything has been resolved nicely.

Clockwork · Post by **Clockwork** » Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:21 am

Good its been resolved I checked the pull request thing on what happened and I completely agree with the dev.

Hopefully this will be a lesson for anyone planning on modding in the future.