https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_trivialityJuiceBox wrote: ↑ I can't believe this has brought up so much attention! Such a trivial issue and everyone is getting involved its unbelievable.....
Of all the things that this game needs we are all talking about a helicopters name and what it's pixels represents , nothing to do with balance or gameplay just simple nit picking at irrelevant issues. Many a good topic gets overlooked in this forum that bring up real issues and bring up good questions and no-one bothers to make any contribution, yet people are getting hung up on the hind issue?
Once this or if this gets changed the game will still have all the issues it has now... WAOW what a waste of time and resources. Wouldn't it be more beneficial if people spent time worrying about meaningful subjects?
But yea let's get hung up on a helicopter.....jesus...
Should we give Soviets their Hind back ?
This is probably the only point we disagree upon. My personal opinion is to keep the current balance and implement a new shp under the same principle as the flak truck since OpenRA is not a clone. But keeping it as is will not bother me, as long balance is not changed. Just my 2cSmitty wrote: ↑It’s to find the best way to address them.
The core issue of this is actually a balance issue, albeit an issue not brought up because of its balance. Some may see it that the issue is the balance cant be reworked to accommodate a more "accurate" aircraft (RA lore or history). So implementing a historically accurate helicopter may be seen as more acceptable.JuiceBox wrote: ↑ I can't believe this has brought up so much attention! Such a trivial issue and everyone is getting involved its unbelievable.....
Looks like the common denominator is "sure, change the name but meh beyond that". So I did this: https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/issues ... -281485039
Just to repeat my points before I duck out of this topic...
1. I am fine with the way OpenRA currently is. There is no "great need" for the Hind to go back to the Soviets. Moving it over will greatly have an impact on balance, and OpenRA just recently managed to settle on balance issues through the efforts of multiple contributors that may make it into the next official public playtest.
2. However, I would not mind seeing the Hind back for the Soviets, if just for nostalgic purposes. I am not a big history or military buff, so the details on terminology does not concern me that much. What does concern me is the balance disruption - see point 1 above.
2A. My first proposed solution is to "copy" the Hind to the Soviets (and give the Soviets a Helipad and a Chinook), while renaming and granting new assets to the Allied Hind. The biggest disruption here is that the Soviets now have a Hind, a Chinook, and a Helipad while the Allies have a "reskinned" Hind. Then, what is the difference between a Hind and a Yak, besides one is a helicopter and the other is a plane?
2B. My second proposed solution is to make another Soviet subfaction that focuses on helicopters and give the Hind (and Chinook, and Helipad) to them instead of all of the Soviet subfactions. The Allies will still have their "reskinned" Hind as the previous. The problem here is that doing this will add additional variables to balance and other assets may need to be created to make this subfaction stand out.
3. Of course, we could simply not make any changes and keep OpenRA as it is and keep the Hind on the Allies side (with the lore reason being the "real life" inventor defecting to the Allies).
TLDR: I am mostly indifferent, but I lean toward keeping OpenRA as it currently is (no change) or incorporating a new Soviet subfaction that focuses on Helicopters.
1. I am fine with the way OpenRA currently is. There is no "great need" for the Hind to go back to the Soviets. Moving it over will greatly have an impact on balance, and OpenRA just recently managed to settle on balance issues through the efforts of multiple contributors that may make it into the next official public playtest.
2. However, I would not mind seeing the Hind back for the Soviets, if just for nostalgic purposes. I am not a big history or military buff, so the details on terminology does not concern me that much. What does concern me is the balance disruption - see point 1 above.
2A. My first proposed solution is to "copy" the Hind to the Soviets (and give the Soviets a Helipad and a Chinook), while renaming and granting new assets to the Allied Hind. The biggest disruption here is that the Soviets now have a Hind, a Chinook, and a Helipad while the Allies have a "reskinned" Hind. Then, what is the difference between a Hind and a Yak, besides one is a helicopter and the other is a plane?
2B. My second proposed solution is to make another Soviet subfaction that focuses on helicopters and give the Hind (and Chinook, and Helipad) to them instead of all of the Soviet subfactions. The Allies will still have their "reskinned" Hind as the previous. The problem here is that doing this will add additional variables to balance and other assets may need to be created to make this subfaction stand out.
3. Of course, we could simply not make any changes and keep OpenRA as it is and keep the Hind on the Allies side (with the lore reason being the "real life" inventor defecting to the Allies).
TLDR: I am mostly indifferent, but I lean toward keeping OpenRA as it currently is (no change) or incorporating a new Soviet subfaction that focuses on Helicopters.
More updates to the Gunship
Figured out all the kinks in the production pipeline and now and produced something closer to what I have in mind. It's not finished yet as I still have to hand paint some minor details and lighting in places that look abit flat.
Here's the 3d Model now after the latest edits, the cartoonification is great for showing details you want to show at lower resolutions.
And here's the ingame, full remap working now.
Here's the 3d Model now after the latest edits, the cartoonification is great for showing details you want to show at lower resolutions.
And here's the ingame, full remap working now.
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AoAGeneral1
- Posts: 597
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:11 pm
Re: More updates to the Gunship
Nice work on the graphics, I would still just settle with a name change though if people are bothered with Hind being on Allies. It could still look like a Hind, just be named something else. Every unit doesn't need to be strictly based on something real.Mortecha wrote: ↑Figured out all the kinks in the production pipeline and now and produced something closer to what I have in mind. It's not finished yet as I still have to hand paint some minor details and lighting in places that look abit flat.
Here's the 3d Model now after the latest edits, the cartoonification is great for showing details you want to show at lower resolutions.
image
And here's the ingame, full remap working now.
image
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RadicalEdward2
- Posts: 80
- Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:34 am
- Location: NJ
I haven't read through the entire thread but, I have an idea.
If the SU can't get their Hind back, what about dogfight capabilities for all planes (all two of them).
I never understood the logic as to why planes could never attack planes in RTS's and yet something as clumsy and wobbly as a VTOL could smack around a plane that's doing 60 +MPH (no clue if it is is 60 but, could be more. You get the point). This was also the case in Red Alert 2. Black Hawks AND Siege Choppers could hit Harriers but, somehow, a Harrier's homing missiles can't lock onto a stationary VTOL.
The precision a helicopter would need to hit a moving plane would probably be on-par with a TOP SECRET military project (something RA is known for).
It would make sense however, if a plane could take down a helicopter with ease.
It would not only make sense in terms of hitting a target that's literally hovering in one spot but, also fit how overpowered the Soviets are (considering they're the 'bad guys').
I'm not saying strip the VTOLs of their dogfighting privileges though.
I think this would be a reasonable trade-off for not having the Hind in their arsenal.
If the SU can't get their Hind back, what about dogfight capabilities for all planes (all two of them).
I never understood the logic as to why planes could never attack planes in RTS's and yet something as clumsy and wobbly as a VTOL could smack around a plane that's doing 60 +MPH (no clue if it is is 60 but, could be more. You get the point). This was also the case in Red Alert 2. Black Hawks AND Siege Choppers could hit Harriers but, somehow, a Harrier's homing missiles can't lock onto a stationary VTOL.
The precision a helicopter would need to hit a moving plane would probably be on-par with a TOP SECRET military project (something RA is known for).
It would make sense however, if a plane could take down a helicopter with ease.
It would not only make sense in terms of hitting a target that's literally hovering in one spot but, also fit how overpowered the Soviets are (considering they're the 'bad guys').
I'm not saying strip the VTOLs of their dogfighting privileges though.
I think this would be a reasonable trade-off for not having the Hind in their arsenal.
One issue that is brought up in this discussion is that the Hind would fill the same exact role as the Yak already does. And my response to that is so what? So what if there are 2 units that fit the exact same purpose? Maybe some people have a preference for the way a Yak handles from its constant motion, where others prefer the Hind's hover stationary in one place feel. I personally would see the Hind as more appropriate for hovering to provide sight at the line of skrimish where Yaks would be better for scouting areas further ahead.
In this scenario, the Hind would be back with the Soviets where it truly belongs and originally was (and makes all logical sense to be) - the fact that 2 units might fill a similar role doesn't really effect balance in any way. You can only produce one aircraft unit at a time so production capabilities are pretty much the same.
On top of that it gives the Soviets back their helipad and also their ability to build transport helicopters. For what balance purpose do the Soviets not have access to the Chinook?
Finally, I think the artwork that was created for the Huey is of high quality and it makes perfect sense to implement. The Huey should function EXACTLY as the Hind does thereby still not having any impact on balance. It will give the game a nice bit of visual variety, retain balance as is, and although adding in completely new unit art would presumably drive the game further from its origins, in a way it offers an opportunity to make the game closer to its original source by putting the Hind back where it originally was and where it truly belongs.
In this scenario, the Hind would be back with the Soviets where it truly belongs and originally was (and makes all logical sense to be) - the fact that 2 units might fill a similar role doesn't really effect balance in any way. You can only produce one aircraft unit at a time so production capabilities are pretty much the same.
On top of that it gives the Soviets back their helipad and also their ability to build transport helicopters. For what balance purpose do the Soviets not have access to the Chinook?
Finally, I think the artwork that was created for the Huey is of high quality and it makes perfect sense to implement. The Huey should function EXACTLY as the Hind does thereby still not having any impact on balance. It will give the game a nice bit of visual variety, retain balance as is, and although adding in completely new unit art would presumably drive the game further from its origins, in a way it offers an opportunity to make the game closer to its original source by putting the Hind back where it originally was and where it truly belongs.
In order to differentiate Hind from it's counterparts and to amplify overarching soviet superiority theme it can become capable of resupplying in the air, existing independent of an helipad. Its combat power being weaker than Yak but as can stay indefinetely long on air...
In one of the cutscenes(or was it the intro?) of Ra, Hind used to fire rockets on a tank, inspired from that maybe can make it weapon cyclable on the helipad, it can fly either infinite chaingun or anti-ground rockets that need resupply on helipad, but not both at a time.
Essentially Soviets would have both choppers of allies at same time on one same unit but have decide flying it in anti-inf or anti-tank loadout.
I also think Chinook sprite and name for soviets can be altered for same immersion reasons as Huey change.
In one of the cutscenes(or was it the intro?) of Ra, Hind used to fire rockets on a tank, inspired from that maybe can make it weapon cyclable on the helipad, it can fly either infinite chaingun or anti-ground rockets that need resupply on helipad, but not both at a time.
Essentially Soviets would have both choppers of allies at same time on one same unit but have decide flying it in anti-inf or anti-tank loadout.
I also think Chinook sprite and name for soviets can be altered for same immersion reasons as Huey change.
