[RA] Experimental v2.2

information and download links

Discussion about the game and its default mods.
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SoScared
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[RA] Experimental v2.2

Post by SoScared » Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:00 pm

RA Experimental v2.2



The final build before release playtesting. Pretty much a polish.



Adjustments from 2.1:
  • MCV Speed set to 71 (originally 85).
  • Stripped price increase of Helipad/Aircraft.
  • Harvesters ore scan radius lowered to 10 from 15, softening Harvester behavior of jumping over from one ore source over to another.


Downloads ( just download, unzip and start playing ):


Windows: https://www.dropbox.com/s/z73ct5a9ho72m ... 2.zip?dl=0

OSX: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/105 ... .2-OSX.zip

Debian GNU/Linux: https://cloud.luon.net/index.php/s/CTlKPTFFpZCbD7n


GitHub repository:
https://github.com/SoScared/OpenRA/tree ... ental_v2.2








RA Experimental v2.1



Before producing a ton of playtest maps for the release I'll do another run with the Experimental build because it was tons of fun and I got a few things to tweak in beforehand. I'll be running this through the next Monday stream but please feel free to download, play and give feedback on it as you see fit. There might be some public servers provided for the build but otherwise you'll likely have to host your own server in order to play the build online.



Adjustments from 2.0:
  • Reverted range nerf of Allied Destroyers AA (9 vs 7.5)
  • Spy Plane charge buff to 2:30 from 2:00 (originally 3:00)
  • MAD Tank unit kill triggers detonate (not including charge-up)
  • MCV speed nerfed from 85 to 56
Complete list of changes to the Experimental build 2.1: http://pastebin.com/CBpLYwSV



Downloads ( just download, unzip and start playing ):


Windows: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vq7ss98c1yn3q ... 1.zip?dl=0

Debian GNU/Linux: https://cloud.luon.net/index.php/s/NA4r60rRuawy09B



GitHub repository:
https://github.com/SoScared/OpenRA/tree ... ental_v2.1








Previous Experimental versions:


RA Experimental v2.0

We're finally back with another playtest build! This time adding another layer on to the previous balance changes tested out on various batches of playtest maps by various authors including Frame Limiter's test maps and the previous playtest build. The foundation of the previous build rests on extensive playtesting over a 6 month period.

For the most part what was carried over to this build ought to be familiar like altered defensive structures, vehicles and structures and also Gap Generator effect values taking advantage of the new Gap feature present in the bleed. Some values has been altered further from the previous build. On top of that Experimental 2.0 includes a slight buildtime reduction to virtually all late-tier units in order to make them more accessible during late-game in addition to an increase of build time for the MCV itself. Not neccessarily gamechanging but hopefully enough to widen the options a bit more for both casual and competetive play.

You'll find a .txt file with all the changes below.

Enjoy!



GitHub repository: https://github.com/SoScared/OpenRA/tree/Experimental_v2


Jazz_KCS has provided 3 public servers for the build found in the multiplayer lobby.


Disclaimer - none of the changes presented in this build represents future inclusions to the official game. Essentially the sum of all balance changes in this build represents the whims of one author. Streams featuring balance testing are considered showcasing (with added flair) and not neccessarily a proof of consept.

Feedback and discussions are encouraged.
Last edited by SoScared on Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:06 am, edited 28 times in total.

lucassss
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Post by lucassss » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:28 pm

*Longbows:
production time: 42 sec, down from 48 sec



*Missile Sub:
production time: 40 sec, down from 48 sec
Why not have the same reduction for all t3 units? Different reductions for different units makes it harder for a player to reason about their eco (For example, in warcraft 2, balista was very expensive, but was slower to build than most units, so constantly building balistas actually wasted LESS gold per minute in comparison to other things).

This may actually solve some of the complaints about shock blobs, by leaving shock trooper creation time the same, or maybe even slightly reducing it, but increasing its price.

Murto the Ray
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Post by Murto the Ray » Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:31 pm

lucassss wrote: This may actually solve some of the complaints about shock blobs
When was the last time people complained about shock blobs? I haven't seen or heard any complaints about them for a pretty long time now.

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Smitty
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Post by Smitty » Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:46 pm

I’ve done a fair bit of games on the available playtests so I’ll go ahead and give my initial thoughts:

Allied static at 600/800/800: Wholeheartedly agree. 600 felt like the right price for pillboxes out of all the playtests. Are they still more powerful than flametowers? Of course; and they should be. Don’t forget V2s are much better at dealing with the base crawl than Artillery.

Flame tower buff: Leaning against this change. It’s probably fine but as a general rule I’m against buffing static defense. Well micro’d flametowers can be very effective.

SAM Site from $750 to $700: Against the change due to reason above. At no point have I thought: Gee I wish SAM Sites cost $50 less.

Increased price of walls: I’m against this because I feel like it’s trying to address a potential problem that’s not that big of a problem yet. Currently there is only one player that builds walls like he’s East Germany (OMnom) and even he’s slowed that down so he can spend more time abusing the base crawl. (Shameless self-promotion of my engi vs walls idea: https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/issues/11749)

Allied Tech Center HP: Agree. I’d also be for reducing soviet tech center HP to 400 instead.

Barracks HP reduction: Leaning towards agree, though I’d like to see more testing on if it really accomplishes anything. Currently the defender may be equally affected because they have to counter with the base push as well.

Helipad/Airfield price increase: Disagree. I don’t see air as overpowered and if you build a sizable air force you’ll need plenty of airfields to reload.

Light tank buff: Agree in principal but I’d like to see more testing. I view light tanks as a raider unit with no role in pitched combat. Because there is no HP increase this change should work but I don’t want them outgunning a few rocket soldiers to death.

MCV: 8 seconds more on production time. Currently MCV’s are the biggest concern that needs to be addressed next to pillboxes. See: (http://www.sleipnirstuff.com/forum/view ... 82&t=19877). Maybe the extra build time will work, maybe it needs something else. I’ll be focusing most of my testing time on this issue.

Chrono/Phase/Mammoth/Telsa build time reduction: Leaning against these changes. I am actually fine with how these units are used in game. There is a huge difference between underused and unused, (see MAD tank below), so I don’t want to see tweaks just to put units in standard rotations. If it is used in an effective way 1 out of 20 games, that’s good enough for me.

MAD Tank usefulness buff: I’m for this; seems like it was very well thought out with the IC destruction and HP reduction to go along with it.

Mobile Radar Jammer price up to 1100, jam range up, cloak detection up, vision range up. I’m fine with these changes, although radar jammers are already very powerful. Keep an eye on it during testing.

Changes to Gap and Mobile Gap generators. Agree because they need to be useful, but anything that affects vision has the potential to be overpowered. Keep an eye on it.

Spy shoots other spies: Sure, why not.

Improvement of yak and mig vision: Once again, be very careful when changing vision.

Faster production of longbows: Against this change because they are the only air superiority unit in the game and don’t need a buff. By the time players start producing them they usually have multiple helipads to reduce production time with.

Changes to Naval Units: Holy crap, this game has boats?! :eek:

Paradrop veterancy buff: I love this change as it adds both power to raiding and a nice visual touch. Paradrops should be effective against any player that doesn’t respond fast enough. I’d go a step further and change one of the rifle men to a flamethrower just so it can have the chance to snipe a poorly defended building.

More Parabombs: Unsure, parabombs have the ability to wipe out an army or be completely useless depending on RNG.

More spy planes: See above for my opinion on vision changes. I feel like we could use more spy planes but this would be a full 1/3rd more. Maybe 2:30?

Great job to everyone working on these playtests!
Last edited by Smitty on Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

noobmapmaker
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Post by noobmapmaker » Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:14 pm

All I can say is thanks for this build and it's important to grow a stronger standard for balance changes. The old standard is to random, although done in good faith.
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SoScared
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Post by SoScared » Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:23 pm

Keep in mind newly added changes to the build are mostly intuitive based on experiences and discussions among various groups of players. The values are for the most part fresh and never tested, hence the name 'experimental'. Have fun with it, see where it leads you.

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SoScared
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Post by SoScared » Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:08 pm

Smitty wrote: Increased price of walls: I’m against this because I feel like it’s trying to address a potential problem that’s not that big of a problem yet. Currently there is only one player that builds walls like he’s East Germany (OMnom) and even he’s slowed that down so he can spend more time abusing the base crawl.
The wall price/production increase is based on more dated observations really. Use of walls started to become apparent shortly after the competitive scene started to make it's way late 2015/early 2016 when ground armies started to become a real thing. Part of the reason it didn't make much headway into the meta was that players were simply unwilling to use them despite being ridiculously useful. They're clunky and ruins the fun. Personally I feel walls ought to stay in the medieval times and there's nothing worse watching a superior built army unable to acquire a target because walls pops up everywhere. As with silos I feel there's no inherent need for walls to be part of competitive play but that's just me speaking as a tank nut.

Regardless, walls being used preemptively and reactionary, this change seeks to address the latter.
Smitty wrote: More spy planes: See above for my opinion on vision changes. I feel like we could use more spy planes but this would be a full 1/3rd more. Maybe 2:30?
I actually had a tough time with this one. I was leaning towards 2:30 at first but considering the balance changes in general favors mobility I decided to give 2:00 a go.

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Graion Dilach
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Post by Graion Dilach » Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:11 am

Spies not consumed by specific infiltratable buildings is impossible, from what I know. File an issue for that - and I doubt it'll get resolved in this release cycle.
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SoScared
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Post by SoScared » Mon Dec 19, 2016 5:36 am

Ah ok, thanks!

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Post by SoScared » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:50 pm

Updated OP:



RA Experimental v2.1



Before producing a ton of playtest maps for the release I'll do another run with the Experimental build because it was tons of fun and I got a few things to tweak in beforehand. I'll be running this through the next Monday stream but please feel free to download, play and give feedback on it as you see fit. There might be some public servers provided for the build but otherwise you'll likely have to host your own server in order to play the build online.



Adjustments from 2.0:
  • Reverted range nerf of Allied Destroyers AA (9 vs 7.5)
  • Spy Plane charge buff to 2:30 from 2:00 (originally 3:00)
  • MAD Tank unit kill triggers detonate (not including charge-up)
  • MCV speed nerfed from 85 to 56
Complete list of changes to the Experimental build 2.1: http://pastebin.com/CBpLYwSV



Downloads ( just download, unzip and start playing ):


Windows: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vq7ss98c1yn3q ... 1.zip?dl=0

Debian GNU/Linux: https://cloud.luon.net/index.php/s/NA4r60rRuawy09B



GitHub repository:
https://github.com/SoScared/OpenRA/tree/Experimental_v2

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JuiceBox
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Post by JuiceBox » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:58 am

This is something I can get on board with. I will give this a whirl soon. Especially looking forward to seeing how the MCV speed works out and faster mammoth tanks :P
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Fortnight
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Post by Fortnight » Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:32 am

KillsSelf:
RequiresCondition: invulnerability


Have they changed the trait? It used to be:

KillsSelf:
UpgradeTypes: invulnerability
UpgradeMinEnabledLevel: 1


If they did change it things are more clear in the new way but it might break a bunch of mods. Unless the old way still works too of course, for backwards compatibility. 8)

The RevealsShroud trait has been changed too, is there a web page where I can see the new traits? I can only find the one generated for release-20161019 of OpenRA. I hope there is a way to adjust the values for the Gap generator! :drunk:

Edit: Or is there a way for me to generate it myself?

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MustaphaTR
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Post by MustaphaTR » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:46 pm

Fortnight wrote: KillsSelf:
RequiresCondition: invulnerability


Have they changed the trait? It used to be:

KillsSelf:
UpgradeTypes: invulnerability
UpgradeMinEnabledLevel: 1
Yes, upgrades are replaced by conditions. Upgrades no longer work.

Modders can use utility commands to automatically upgrade. It shouldn't break much stuff.

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Post by abcdefg30 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:36 pm


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Fortnight
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Post by Fortnight » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:34 pm

Cool, thanks to both of you!

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