Currently, in phase 2 testing, I'm testing to see whether or not pillbox price has a greater effect on the spamming or if opportunity cost (my radar edit) has a greater effect. If i didn't put the SD as the prereq, then it would be difficult to compare because the different build orders would alter the games tremendously. Phase 2 testing is almost done; currently testing different pillbox prices.Doomsday wrote: ↑I also dislike moving tech buildings into a different tab.
Different people have different opinions on what's good game balance. To me it's quite important to have different viable openings - games could quickly become boring if all players do same build order each time. Optimally I would like to see both quick service depot and quick radar dome viable. For the first few minutes of the game we already see different openings being viable - double refinery and quick war factory can both work. Heck, we have even seen viable triple refinery before war factory. To me all different build orders don't have to be perfectly balanced - I think it's alright for some openings to be "better in a vacuum" if some build orders are good in certain maps or for a niche strategy. As an example, I will mention Gatekeeper's game in RAGL S2, R07 against FiveAces where he went for quick radar dome into 3 Airfields and Yaks (before service depot). I assume his idea was to snipe FiveAces' first expand in order to make it pay off. In the end Gatekeeper wasn't able to do so and ended up losing to FiveAces.
What I dislike about moving radar dome and tech center into different build tab is how it forces everyone to play the same build order. This is especially the case because with Omnom's current test build where service depot is required for building the radar dome. So with these changes, we would see everyone going for more or less same build order. Also, radar dome and tech center being in defense tab is really unintuitive and changes fundamental aspects of the game. I would prefer to nerf MCV spam and base push with different tools.
So here's my proposal. Remove BuildDurationModifier from MCV. It would change MCV build time from 32 seconds to 40 seconds. It would not nerf gameplan of single expand player significantly - by just 8 seconds. However, it would be quite a significant nerf to player spamming 4 MCVs: that would be total of 32 seconds slower build capacity (build time of about two mobile flaks or light tanks).
In addition to removing MCV BuildDurationModifier, I propose adding BuildDurationModifier to Radar Dome and Tech Center and possibly adjusting their price as well. This would keep tech being an expensive investment but faster build time would not put teching player as behind as tech tends to do in current live build. BuildDurationModifier 40 on Radar Dome would make build time about 8 seconds faster than currently. So it would almost allow teching player to build one extra barracks compared to current live build.
Pillbox and Turret price change nerfs feels good. We have plenty of evidence of Omnom's games as well as SoScared's playtest thunderdome games to come into conclusion that allied defensive buildings are still worthwhile to build with higher cost and production time.
Phase 3 testing will be to put the SD in the defense tab as well, and have the WF be the prerequisite for both SD and Radar dome. This will bring back WF into Dome builds. The goal of phase 3 will be to see if different build orders will be able to counter, or at least effectively stop base pushing.
I've been testing basepushes against master level players for the past month. You can ask Lorry, Smitty, MT, Barf, Klaas, and Murto. They'll testify to how lame it is. I haven't even thrown artillery in there yet.JuiceBox wrote: ↑I wonder if the same amount of time and attention has gone into analysing the base push and how to counter it? We seem verry eager to change the game on a fundamental level before exploring ALLL possibilities to a counter. I put it to omnom to try and knock all these masters off Thier pedestal and win the masters division with this so called 'ultimate game play' before we all say ' ok this is now an issue let's change the game'
As I see it you have the choice of focusing on your eco or tech. Choosing the right time to transcend is a pivotal moment in a game and a CHOICE when to do so. By putting the radar dome in the defence tab your removing this important choice from the game.
When I play soviets I hate having to choose between flack trucks and heavy tanks so hey let's move flack trucks to the inf tab so I can produce both.
When a chess grand master comes up with a new line that changes the way people play chess. The community dosnt go well to counter this the knight should now be able to move as a bishop too. NO they suck it up! go away re analyse and come up with a counter!
'How would you know you wouldn't be happy if you didn't try the changes?' - the same way I know I wouldn't like dog shit on my ice cream instead of chocolate sauce.
You forgot production buildings, and I'm not removing the choice between eco and tech; i'm reassigning it to eco vs production and tech vs defense.
And there is reasoning behind moving the tech to the defense tab. Go read it
