[RA Balance] Mammoth Tank - Buffing speed

[SoScared]

At this point in time I think it's neccessary to bring in more opinions on a specific proposoal expressed in a pull request. I'll be doing this for a few issues on the forum relatively shortly.

I think the best way to read up on the subject matter is reading up on the pull request:
https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/pull/11731

As mentioned initially the pull request came after a forum discussion and GitHub issues 1 and 2. Please read up on all these links before commenting or participating in the poll.

My closing argument is pretty much that at Speed=42, you can forget about any meaningful future buff for this unit without making it an exotic clown unit. Instead we should expect this unit to be a total dud for a few releases. The speed buff would at the very least avoid punishing players, especially newer players, who's looking to have fun with it. ZOMBIES move at speed 42. At best, it will add itself as a useful utility unit for fringe, specific situations in competetive play, adding to the gameplay. At worst it will break balance which IMO is unimaginable given that Heavy Tanks still give you way more army push value for your buck, possibly with exception on choky high-eco spam maps given Mammoth Tanks' custom build time (reducing production time/price).

[jaZz_KCS]

Oh wait, I have to vote. Derp.

I'm scared.

[JOo]

[Materianer]

I say no to buffing mammoth while arty gets nerfed, this would imbalance the game too much.
I like playing as anyfaction and at the moment i think allies, especially france and england are a bit weaker than the soviets, or you want to fight the mammoth with spys and fakebuildings then?

[SoScared]

from https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/pull/1 ... quote]Even at speed 50 the Mammoth Tank is vastly outperformed by the Heavy Tank. Imo, with exception to spammy big team player choke maps, the change isn't gonna get anywhere close to putting the balance at risk.[/quote]
If the upcoming Artillery nerf is of any concern, speed 50 Mammoth Tanks will be way down the list of potential balance breakers. Game balance is more than just simply equalizing amounts of buffs/nerfs for each faction.

[PizzaAtomica]

I'm all for making the Mammoth a little faster, because I feel right now it is almost impossible to get them out of battles when needed, making them effectively a suicide unit.
Also I don't think we need to worry too much about them taking over the role of the Heavy Tank because Mammoths require a lot more tech (Radar and Tech Center). Heavy Tanks will still be your main battle tank during the midgame.

Just to get an idea, what is the current speed of the Heavy Tank?

[anjew]

I'm all for making the Mammoth a little faster, because I feel right now it is almost impossible to get them out of battles when needed, making them effectively a suicide unit.
Also I don't think we need to worry too much about them taking over the role of the Heavy Tank because Mammoths require a lot more tech (Radar and Tech Center). Heavy Tanks will still be your main battle tank during the midgame.

Just to get an idea, what is the current speed of the Heavy Tank?

71 which is the same speed as rifle and rockets

[Murto the Ray]

71 which is the same speed as rifle and rockets

Actually, rifles and rockets have a speed of 56. The grenadier has a speed of 71.

[jaZz_KCS]

71 which is the same speed as rifle and rockets

Actually, rifles and rockets have a speed of 56. The grenadier has a speed of 71.

Offtopic, albeit making me wonder: Were the original RakZeroes in TD95/RA96 as fast as the rifles? I am pretty sure that they - originally - were a tad slower

[AoAGeneral1]

That is a negative. RakZeroes were actually the slowest infantry in the game for both CNC95 and RA96.

Currently in ORA TD they still are the slowest infantry in the game with the minigunners moving faster.

[PizzaAtomica]

RakZeroes

What are these "RakZeroes" you people speak of? Are they the same as what other people call "E3"? Can we just keep calling them Rocket Soldiers or does that make me uncool?

[JOo]

theres no "rakzeroes" ingame ... its an E3 ... or a Rocket Soldier

[AoAGeneral1]

Its the german game version name. Being rocket soldiers. Much like until ORA was made E3 didn't exist either. So it does exist lol.

Just like Cyborg "Schütze Mk.1 is essentially minigunners.

[jaZz_KCS]

RakZeroes

What are these "RakZeroes" you people speak of? Are they the same as what other people call "E3"? Can we just keep calling them Rocket Soldiers or does that make me uncool?

[22:06] jaZz_KCS AoAGeneral: I made a terrible mistake.
[22:06] AoAGeneral What?
[22:08] jaZz_KCS I called the Rocket Soldiers "RakZeros" and stirred up a hornet's nets
[22:08] jaZz_KCS ~nest
[22:08] jaZz_KCS But I was right with them being slower than normal gunners in both vanilla titles
[22:10] AoAGeneral Im now realizing you prolly did that as with when you played Normans german map version where you didn't even notice at all until halfway into the game LOL
[22:10] AoAGeneral But aye you are right.

[abcdefg30]

Much like until ORA was made E3 didn't exist either.

IIRC they were called "E3" internally in the original games as well. (Yay to the "ontopic-ness" )