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Never too early to start playtesting.

Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:20 pm
by SoScared
So I took a solid amount of balance change suggestions, added a few personal favourites of my own, and hijacked a ton of maps. All properly uploaded to the resource center but for convenience, here's a zip of all 17 modded maps: ...


Light Tank:
ReloadDelay doubled, Damage doubled
Damage vs Heavy Armor +10%
Damage vs Light Armor +20%

German Medium Tank:
Price: $1080 (normal $850)
Damage vs Heavy Armor +30%
Longer barrel graphic

Mammoth Tank:
Speed: 50, up from 42

Range: 12, down from 14

Chrono Tank:
Charge Delay: 350, up from 300
Max. Distance: 22, up from 12

Price: $2500, up from $2000
Charge Time: 10 sec, up from 5 sec
HP: 600, down from 900
Chronoshift - no effect
Iron Curtain - Detonation (no Thump)
Range (Thump1): 20, up from 7
Damage (Thump1): 1 (vs Wood: 75%)
Range (Thump2): 8, up from 7
Damage (Thump2): 1 Concrete
Range (Detonate): 8, up from 7
Damage (Detonate): 10 (vs Concrete 1000%)

Shock trooper:
HP: 45, down from 60

Cost: $1850, down from $2000
AA + AG missile range: 5, up from 4
AG missile tracking: 8, up from 4
Burst Delay: 14, up from 10
Burst: 4, up from 2

Cost: $1750, down from $2000
Anti-Ground missile tracking: 14, up from 10

Missile Sub:
Cost: $2000, down from $2400
Damage: 25, down from 30
Added air as a valid target

Camo. Pillbox:
HP: 450, down from 600

Flame tower:
Projectile speed: 250, up from 204
Delay between firewall burst: 15, up from 20

HP: 200, down from 300

Misc. Damage vs Concrete:
Tesla weapons - 50% down from 100%
Rocket soldier - 40% up from 20%
Flame thrower - 20% down from 50%
Flame tower - 20% down from 50%

Allied Tech Center:
HP: 600, up from 400

Fake Service Depot available for France

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Damage vs Concrete (including idea about MADTank damage vs Concrete) by Frame Limiter.

Frame Limiter's latest modded map:

Parts of Aircraft buffs taken from r34ch's pull request:

Missile Sub's AA capability and missile behavior by Hamb

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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:36 pm
by Kwendy
Fake Service Depot available for France
Now that's OP.
No changes for light tank price?
Also, the description of MiG's and Longbows is a bit off.

Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:48 pm
by SoScared
Make France Great Again! Time will tell with the light tanks. The hope is that they become usefull non-RC-like vehicles.

Fixed Longbow/Mig info.

Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 8:09 am
by Concret
Nice job SoScared. Never to early to make some changes 8) .

Just some thoughts I had last night:

1). I agree that Russia needs an AA for their naval fleet, but it's a bit cheesy for the missile sub to shoot it's missiles at airplanes too... Would be nice to put an AA gun on the regular sub? Like a little machine-gun. Maybe a bit too old-school, but I like the idea that you'd need regular subs to protect missile subs from sea and air. Plus it allows Soviets to quickly control sea against air.

2). Make medics support unit, like Engi and Harv. I understand why they are now part of regular army selection, but it would add some nice extra micro to the game. So you can easily put medics on guard duty for your soldiers, without them rushing into battle. Also, once their (guard)target dies, they'd get left behind and will need to be put back onto duty. = extra micro, with benefit. Maybe you could shift-guard a few soldiers?

3). Inverted mouse drag? In CAD / Design programs this function allows you to alternatively select objects when you reverse mouse drag.. So you reverse drag over your army, and only select soldiers. Might be a nice option to either retreat or rush your infantry blob while tanks stay behind.

4). Back to AA: Apart from both sides having rocket soldiers... Soviets got Flak-truck, Mammoth, Missile Sub. Allies got AA Helicopter. Since the Allies AA unit is also an air unit, it's extra vulnerable. (against the amount of Soviet AA) Altho I don't see this current setup being a problem in current multiplayer games, it does feel a little strange. Since it's not really a problem, I wouldn't call it an imbalance, but just wondering if there is some thoughts on this?

Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 8:48 am
by AoAGeneral1
3) Inverted mouse drag might be an interesting tool but you can also Shift + double click on a unit and it selects only that type.

Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:39 am
by Concret
ah yeah I know that option. But I meant for a more location specific way to select infantry. So incase I want my blob of E1, E2, E3 to move forward fast, while tanks stay.

Also the shift-click is screenwide, which sometimes can be a problem, where my ore-field guards should not join the horde into battle. :-P

Btw, when you hold Shift then your invert mouse drag will only select vehicles!

Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:08 pm
by r34ch
I like a few of the changes proposed here (flame tower and tech center). I've actually been working on a balance project on and off myself over the last year which I will post soon. Just wanted to say the timing was coincidental in case you think it's somehow related to this thread. And good effort with the unit modding!

Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:05 pm
by Kwendy
Tournament island is a huge eco map, but so far missle subs and MiGs are very enjoyable to use. And Arty are much easyer to counter. Mad tank was to hard to use: couple of turrets shreaded them all.

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:46 am
by klaas
I think heavy tanks are a bit too weak. In general, Medium tanks are more useful, just because they are faster, and in 1to1 combat with heavy tanks they are pretty even. I feel like heavy tanks can use an increase in their damage, maybe like 20%.

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:07 pm
by JOo
@klaas : you are nuts ... heavys are already stronger then medium-tanks ... and even the artys do get a nerf in the next release ...

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:52 pm
by SoScared
Regarding tanks it's helpful to back up claims with some raw numbers. As a tank nut I'll gladly provide some here.

1-to-1 the Heavy tank (550 HP) is left with ca. 40% of its' health (220 HP) vs the Medium Tank (450 HP).

Heavy tanks ($1150) cost ca. 35% more ($300) than the Medium Tank ($850).

Heavy tanks has a build time of 28 seconds - 33,3% more (7 seconds) than the Medium Tank's 21 seconds - meaning for every 3 Heavy Tanks built ($3450), Allies can build 4 Medium Tanks ($3400).

So what happens when we send 4 Medium Tanks vs 3 Heavy Tanks? I ran a quick test:

CTRL+Shift right-click allows you to queue attack your own units.

The resuls after 5 engagements looked like this:

So the Heavy Tank came out as a slight winner but it looks like a virtual tie.

The Medium Tank (speed: 85) has a speed advantage of ca. 20% (speed: 14) over the Heavy Tank (speed: 71). As a faster moving target you would think it would dodge better against the Heavy Tank. It doesn't.

I made a little race track in order to compare the difference between damage vs moving and stationary targets.


The results showed ivariably that the Heavy Tank needs 6 bursts to kill off a moving or stationary Medium Tank. Medium Tank needs 14 shots to kill off a moving or stationary Heavy Tank. Neither tanks can move fast enough to reduce damage taken from shots.

In conclusion In terms of armor- and damage value they rank virtually equal. If you had a chocie between the Heavy and the Medium Tank you'd want have the Medium Tank given its' 20% faster speed. It's the better tank.

The tie in the armor- and damage value gives the Allies an another advantage in terms of flexibility with the War Factory production. Allies can mix in the Medium Tank and switch over to other War Factory units faster than the Soviets who has to commit 33.3% more value with the Heavy Tank production.

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:11 pm
by JOo
okay well then let me ask you one thing .... if you had the choice of "cronoing" 5 tanks ... into your enemys base

would you take the mediums or the heavys ?

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:16 pm
by SoScared

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:21 pm
by JOo
why dont you send in the "better tanks" ?


Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:34 pm
by klaas
Thanks SoScared. I once tested it with Ozzy, and if you play Allies vs Soviets, only building tanks, the Allies have a clear advantage. This is even without the advantage the Medium tanks have in crushing infantry.

Microbit: if you can IC Heavys or Mediums, what would you IC?