OpenRA

I've had quite a few complaints about the light support from doing 1v1's.
Some say they don't like the "randomness" and many complain about Nods chance to get bike + buggy and GDI's chance to get APCs. Basically they think it's OP and source it as a reason not to do 1v1.

Currently its of my opinion that all the combinations are equal in firepower and it's usually whoever is aggressive that loses their units. However if altering the light support combinations will encourage more people to play then I am for it. You really only need the starting units for scouting so maybe just starting buggy/humvee will be better

Going with the MCV as default starting is a bad idea in 1v1 anyways. It doesn't give you the early scout vehicles and also gives the importance of keeping it alive rather then having it die.

When you choose MCV as the default you have to start with barracks first everytime just to scout.

This is the common concern ive seen about bikes many times as well. However, easily counterable if you mix in infantry with your own bikes or buggy units. In fact, players who decide to do a mass buggy build get shutdown with a bike infantry combo due to the longer range of the bike and the infantry actually can smoke a lot of buggies down depending on numbers.

As for GDI players going APC for a counter buggy/bike play is your best option. Utilize the APC plays with infantry drops. You would be surprised how easily it shuts the Nod player down and with the E3 buff from the last patch deals with light tanks in small numbers.

You can also see the difference here when mixing in the infantry from this old stream game. https://youtu.be/wDZvcms6jZE?t=16m50s

AoAGeneral1 wrote: ↑ When you choose MCV as the default you have to start with barracks first everytime just to scout.

Do you though? I kinda feel like TD is lacking effective early rushes. Infantry are pretty necessary as it is so unless you are really trying to eco boom(in which case a rush is the perfect counter) you're going to build a rax and be on top of a defensive structure.

I don't like light support because I don't think scouting should be free. Add in the RNG of what you get and it get's even more unfair.

Blackened wrote: ↑

AoAGeneral1 wrote: ↑ When you choose MCV as the default you have to start with barracks first everytime just to scout.

Do you though? I kinda feel like TD is lacking effective early rushes. Infantry are pretty necessary as it is so unless you are really trying to eco boom(in which case a rush is the perfect counter) you're going to build a rax and be on top of a defensive structure.

You just said if they scout with barracks build a barracks yourself to put defenses up. This means games always start with a barracks just to get a defense structure going at least.

With the light support you can at least scout and see/defend against scouts and risk/reward comes into affect. You can risk for the factory or go barracks first in this case.

As for the RNG part Im on the fence about it. Crushing infantry is RNG in itself and its quite buggy in many cases. Starting with an APC doesn't always mean "Free crushes!" because the E3 could RNG dodge or not. But the starting bike is the one you have to watch out for. Unless you spawn with a buggy, then you have more then 1 E3 to worry about.

That isn't really what I said at all. You build a rax for 4 reasons currently, you want to cap an oil derrick(s), you want to scout your enemy, you need a building to reach a tib field properly, or you want to rush/be prepared to stop a rush. Unless it a super small map you can get away with no scouting unless your opponent goes for an all or nothing type play.

With light support the is zero risk in going for factory first. You're going to see any rush that comes your way and can quickly switch to stop it or fend it off with what you have.

Blackened wrote: ↑ With light support the is zero risk in going for factory first. You're going to see any rush that comes your way and can quickly switch to stop it or fend it off with what you have.

This isn't necessarily correct, even with light support an all in build or even a timed inf rush can work really well against someone going warfactory. The latter being harder to scout

Right now Im more looking at feedback and suggestions for the current light support system. Im fine with a minimalist approach or with just reworking the buggy + bike and apc combo.
People dont like the idea of so much dps being available and it can give the Nod player early game control of the map before they even finish the warfac

Blackened wrote: ↑That isn't really what I said at all. You build a rax for 4 reasons currently, you want to cap an oil derrick(s), you want to scout your enemy, you need a building to reach a tib field properly, or you want to rush/be prepared to stop a rush. Unless it a super small map you can get away with no scouting unless your opponent goes for an all or nothing type play.

With light support the is zero risk in going for factory first. You're going to see any rush that comes your way and can quickly switch to stop it or fend it off with what you have.

Might want to have a look at this then https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihpV4Vcmq4I

AoAGeneral1 wrote: ↑ Might want to have a look at this then https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihpV4Vcmq4I

To be fair, clay wasn't really doing good that match regardless. He sent in his starting buggy probably while he was base building and got it killed pointlessly. He could have easily kept it on the edge of your base and would have seen the comm drop.

It took you 2:30 to build your rush up and 30 more seconds to reach his base (granted you could have pushed earlier if you wanted) It takes ~96 seconds to get the airstrip down. Leaving him with well over a minute to counter your attack. ~8 seconds per buggy and he could have a minimum of 4 out which would have been enough to slow your attack(again assuming he had any sort of micro)

The point is two players of near skill level won't be affected by going for a fac first unless they are really greedy. But like Anjew said, it's all timing. Of course you are going to lose if you go fac first and pump out a second ref and harv just as the rush hits. Then you're out of money. But if you have a free scout and you keep it alive the chances of that happening are slim.


As an aside, will you please pump out some more TD vids please. Thanks





Also sorry Anjew I really didn't mean to hijack the thread. IF light support is going to be used definitely no apc and no bike. 1 buggy/hummer 3 riflemen and 2 e3 would be the ideal mix I think. You get your fast scout and the infantry should be more than enough to deal with an aggressive scouter.

Might want to check the timings again. By the time he had the potential to get what he needed to counter the infantry I had a tank up which negates the buggies completely. The Grenadier play counters E3, bikes, and minigunners as well as base destruction. The main point in the video was to spend his resources on defense structures or risk losing units. Which it worked.

As for equal skill level ive shutdown players who do factory first builds everytime to the point where they MUST build a barracks first. Just with one of the build orders I do.

As for the vids, its on the way. Planning to be every Tuesday now that we have a set schedule setup.