[RA Balance] MAD Tank

[SoScared]

With exception of some clever team-plays the MAD Tank seems have no clear role and is widely regarded as useless.

There's been suggestions popping up here and there in midst of other balance discussions about the unit. Overall it seems obvious that the MAD Tank needs serious alteration from its' current state in order to become useful. Also there's been a call for defining it's role before making any alterations whatsoever so as to not blindly assigning it new properties without an understanding of how it would fit into a game. Simply changing damage, speed, HP etc. looks to be taking the unit nowhere.

[SoScared]

So there's a couple suggestions from multiple discussion threads that might possibly pull together a more interesting MAD Tank for use in specific situations. My favourite combination of these new traits would be:

• Can only have 1 available in the field at any given time (hero unit).
• Make the tank audiable for all players when exiting the War Fac.
• Upon detonation, indiscriminately deliver partial damage vs structures, vehicles, possibly air, within a considerable big radius. Damage output being debatable, for example deliver 33% overall within the radius, or start with 100% from the center etc.
• While charging up, make infantry go prone, slow down vehicles within its' radius.
• Disable use with Iron Curtain and Chronoshift.

There's a few instances where this MAD Tank would come in handy. For example against a stubbornly turtling player in a long drawn out match the MAD Tank could be escorted by infantry close to the base and force the player to act out or repair himself to death with each blow. Perhaps as a high risk, high reward delivery with carefully positioned MAD Tank as a prelude for a push towards a specific area on the map. Making the tank audiable to all players when produced (like Tanya) would certainly put the opponent on his or her toes and giving the unit hero status would excuse its' powerful properties.

[Sleipnir]

My two personal favorites alternatives:

1. Remove the self-destruct, and make it a continuous-fire seismic tank that gradually damages all surrounding vehicles / structures while it is deployed (no 33% damage limit, but much slower to deal damage).
2. Remove the unit completely, and maybe somebody can add it back in the future if a legitimate use case comes along (like we did for the hijacker).

[FiveAces]

Personally, I'd love for it to be reworked into a support unit with the following traits:

- Build limit of 1 at any given time

- Does no longer do damage in any way, shape or form

- Upon activation, does now stunlock all vehicles and structures in a medium-sized radius until deactivation or destruction.

This would turn it into a powerful support vehicle and high priority target,
bringing a more utility-based flavour to the Soviet arsenal.
It would still be hardcountered by infantry, as they'd not be affected at all
(maybe the tremors could trigger them to go prone, but that might be a bit overkill -
nothing that a bit of playtesting won't reveal)

[JuiceBox]

I think I would be neat if it had an area of effect. the blast causes radio communications to that area to be distorted and will cause chaos to the troops caught in the bast, simple move orders in the area to become erratic or lost. Making the player either retreat to safety or face a difficult battle in the given zone. giving a fitting name to the MAD tank. or should I just

[FRenzy]

Nice ideas, I particularly like FiveAces' and Sleipnir's ones.

However, I'm neither fond of the 1 unit limitation (Allies already have bunch of support units (Gap Gen, Radar Jammer, Tanya, ...) while Soviets have almost none ), nor the sound notification (one could argue that Tanya / Phase have a notification, but they are respectively a hero / a cloaked unit)

Would be great to see MAD tanks on the field again ^^

[Blackened]

Would it be possible to make them lower the accuracy of tank shells? (artillery, light tank, flak, medium, heavy, mammy, v2)? Kind of a counterpart to allied radar jammer. Nothing too outlandish. maybe like a 5-25% decrease.

[AmericanBlunt_]

The MAD tank is basically useless without the allies chrono or on a big team game Ive thought about some ideas to improve its usefulness( basic speed boost or HP increase) I think that would prove it useful...

[noobmapmaker]

In addition to 5Aces: infantry could crawl?

And what I would find interesting is that the madtank also destroys trees*. Arguments against this is that some maps use trees as impassable terrain and to cover up mapglitches - all true.
Still I think it's a nice special feature if soviets are able to destroy terrain and put it to their advantage in late game technology.

* bit confusing choice of words: it used to destroy trees, but does no longer. #bringbacktreedestruction

[Graion Dilach]

MadTank shouldn't destroy trees. It did such some releases ago but that should have been fixed since.

[MustaphaTR]

In my YR mod, mad tank deals damage like 8 times before destroying himself. It basically has an area effect deploy weapon. I think that would be nice for OpenRA too. It has pros and cons tho. It would be still dealt a bit damage even if it killed by enemy before self destruction. But if it was pre-damaged it deals less damage as it'll be self-destruct before normal.

Also incrasing range a bit can be good, i think it is 10 now, 12 can be better.

[Murto the Ray]

To extend what american blunt said: instead of decreasing the accuracy of tank shells why not make it attract them when deployed. It is a tanky unit and so being a bullet sponge makes sense in that regard. That is probably deviating from the original game too much though.

[FRenzy]

Just for the record : I've just witnessed a game won by MAD tanks + infantry spamming

Actually they are not that useless (combined with Iron Curtain for instance).
The thing is they are hard to use, because too slow, and also too much time/money consuming. Quite like Demo trucks, tricky to use, but they can deal a lot of damage.

The offensive use of it could still be interesting.



Maybe some food for thought :
- for the stomp effect, there could be a cooldown timer (like chrono tanks). For instance, units could be stomped 5 sec every 10 sec.

- for the damage dealing effect : the MAD tank could suffer his own damage, UNLESS he is Iron Curtained, in which case he wouldn't be affected.
So basically, it could become an invulnerable bomb /damage dealer every 2 minutes

- maybe combining the two effects ?

[r34ch]

Remove the self-destruct, and make it a continuous-fire seismic tank that gradually damages all surrounding vehicles / structures while it is deployed (no 33% damage limit, but much slower to deal damage).

I think it would be interesting as a somewhat continuous damage AoE unit. I would love to see it as Allied and have the Soviet mammoth tuned to be more useful to match it.

Rather than disabling chrono or IC, you could instead have a slow build up or deploy which would counteract the IC and chrono combo in one swoop. I'm not sold on the single unit idea, that should be reserved for heroes?

[Materianer]

The Mad tank is a really nice weapon in big teamgames ( if you got a mate playing as allies) on most of the watermaps and can also be good in ffa.
Same as chronotank it sux on small maps and if your under period attack.
And the same problem is that players are just playing theyr style and choose the easyiest way to win the game.
Its not so often that i build madtanks. The map/faction/enemys must fit to succeed with them.
The biggest problem is theyr long buildtime. The enemy is building an army and win the game that way faster.
Please dont remove the self destruct or nerf them that would ruin it and its already rarely used but for me its one of the fun units wich makes this game special.
Also its sometimes the only way to end a long cruel game on divide maps.