Help Newbies

Fahrradkette · Post by **Fahrradkette** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:00 pm

When playing MP games I often see people asking for having "Explored Map" option enabled. I'm referring to the discussion in issue #9583[/url]

New players would benefit from this change the most since they're busy learning other aspects of the game. In the other hand, why not crush those newbs as hard as possible?

What's your thoughts on it?

Hecthor Doomhammer · Post by **Hecthor Doomhammer** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:16 pm

I agree. and while you're at it, DISABLE Crated by default too.

r34ch · Post by **r34ch** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:03 pm

+1 for explored map enabled and crates disabled by default. It would really make playing new and unfamiliar maps much more fun

micdroppa · Post by **micdroppa** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:27 pm

+1
Also I think it is not only about newbies.

It does not mean one player is better, just he has had the luck to have played that particular map before a few times. That can happen with pros too.
So one player can expand straight to the ore and quickly captures the oilwells, while other player might not even where the resources are.

In singleplayer uncovering shroud was nice experience, but for competetive multiplayer I think it adds nothing to the game.

AoAGeneral1 · Post by **AoAGeneral1** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:21 am

Disagree with the default shrouds. Reasons being:

You can ask "Shroud off please" which happens in some of my games and I tick them off.

Also can ask "Crates off please" Which I already tick off on all my games I play. Unless the players asks for them to be on I will.

Not sure what changing the defaults will do if im going to tick them with every game I join.

For new player friendly I can understand why people would ask to have it off. But I would suggest to also practice with it on too. Because sometimes you may see how the map is laid out but if you are against a player with experience I can eye scan the map and already plan out routes with attacks/holds. More precise locations then having to guesstimate.

EDIT: I did not vote in the poll because I do not agree with "Nope. No need for noobs" but I agree with "Nope. Strengthen new players with game mechanics."

noobmapmaker · Post by **noobmapmaker** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:33 am

To bad of the wording in this poll, kind of hard to answer "no" in this poll, because it somehow means that you also don't like new OpenRA users (?).

I really like crates, also because they offer an MCV when you are out of MCV's. For noobs they are fun little bonusses that don't decide games. Competitive players should turn them off, imo.

IronScion · Post by **IronScion** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:44 am

The 'no' option here is a bit loaded. I agree with leaving the default as is, though.

JOo · Post by **JOo** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:51 am

noobmapmaker : i agree

Post by **abcdefg30** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:17 am

Agree with AoA, NMM, Iron and MicroBit.

Post by **Sleipnir** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:46 am

I have edited the poll text to remove the bias from the second option.

My personal preference would be shroud disabled by default, crates enabled by default.

I would like to see some actual gameplay arguments for keeping shroud enabled by default, not just "I like it how it is now". Almost every major positive gameplay change we have made (enabling infantry crushing, base radius, RA production acceleration) had people arguing beforehand that they liked the game as it was, and didn't want the change to be introduced.

anjew · Post by **anjew** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:30 am

At the end of the day it's all personal preference. It doesn't matter if it changes or not. AoA has a point that everyone should practice as they are standard competitive options but as he said you can just ask to turn it on/off. It wouldn't matter so much if the settings didn't revert every map change.

I'd say people have put more effort into arguing this then it takes to change the setting. My vote is for changing the default settings only because I have been encountering more newer players and this would assist easing them into the game.

Regarding crates however, I say turn that off. I try not to play any games with crates because they can still tip the tide of a match if one player gets many of them and I, as well as other TD players, always turn this off, even for team games

Post by **Sleipnir** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:21 pm

anjew wrote: ↑It wouldn't matter so much if the settings didn't revert every map change.

This has been fixed for the next playtest/release.

Hecthor Doomhammer · Post by **Hecthor Doomhammer** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 1:24 pm

Sleipnir wrote: ↑
anjew wrote: ↑It wouldn't matter so much if the settings didn't revert every map change.
This has been fixed for the next playtest/release.

So happy with this. I didn't realize that it reverted every time, until late last streaming session. So annoying...

JOo · Post by **JOo** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:24 pm

Sleipnir wrote: ↑
My personal preference would be shroud disabled by default ...

I would like to see some actual gameplay arguments for keeping shroud enabled by default, not just "I like it how it is now"

then give me an argument why we have shroud anyway ...
i like shroud for aesthetic - reasons ... it adds a pinch of singleplayer-flair to a multiplayer-game ... sort of like "explore and conquer the map ... , things to discover "

most of the regular players learned to play OpenRA that way (with shroud on) and nobody whined in the past about that (we didnt even have the "option" to turn it off)
when you check the minimap before the game starts ... you can blindly place your buildings towards the first ore-patch ..

one disadvantage for a new player could be that he doesnt know where the oil-derricks are on a map ... but then i could also ask for making oil-derricks visible on the minimap ...
oh , and ive seen players actually "pinging" the direction for noobs (to the first ore-patch direction) ... so could also see it as something to reward teamplay actually team-chatting and placing a usefull beacon

theres no need to hold hands with every new player on every possible opportunity ...
we have rules ... and we should keep sure to stick with our rules instead of changing it all the time (holy opensource , please forgive me) ... because changing rules all the time makes a game unreliable

an unreliable game might attract new players at first ... but also scares away the regular players/pros in the long run

i often expose myself to a never played map with shroud on default ...and i dont give a flying f*** ... what i do instead, i take a look at the minimap ...and before the map starts i ask if theres any derricks ...

thats all i need to know ... and if i put myself at disadvantage its okay for me ...

noobmapmaker · Post by **noobmapmaker** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:21 pm

The shroud really makes it more difficult: you have to scout areas to have the explored view. I really need it to properly place my stuff. Even on maps that I have played alot I sometimes place buildings slightly off, e.g.: refinery 1/2 cells from ore, barracks exit against a cliff, etc. Personally I like it because it's fun that you have to deal with the troubles, and your opponent too.

Also looking forward to map generation by Tim and have true blind games where the players start in an unknown area and have to discover their surroundings and then plan what to do. I understand this is different from Exactly equal chances tournament strategies where each player knows exactly what is up. But the discovering of surroundings and adapt strategy is a skill too.

Btw: when you pick up the crate that resets the shroud, then it really sucks. Is the spy in radar still a radar reset?

Tldr: shroud is an interesting game element, a mechanism maybe even, that adds difficulty to the game.

Help Newbies

"Explored Map" enabled by default?

Help Newbies