Lets discuss Shock Troopers (Red Alert)

[r34ch]

The problem with fake buildings being almost as strong as the real one

build more than one fake silo will be good.

Prince Blueblood I did not suggest either of those as that would make France incredibly OP. Please reread my modest proposal.

1v1 games ... I'm not sure Russia is always going to be winning because of them

I'm gonna come out and say it.

There is currently no skill involved in playing Russia.

No strategy in build orders
Since flaks and shockies effectively counter all air and ground, you don't have to make decisions about what unit you are going to build next. Other factions have to choose specific units depending on the situation. Do I build anti armour or ranged base attack from my WF? anti air or anti inf from the barracks? Shockies are so multirole (damage soak, anti inf, anti armour and anti base) they remove this strategy

Cheap and quickly massed attacks
Iron curtains recharge every two minutes. Shockies and flaks are insanely cheap ($400/$500). In the time it takes to recharge the curtain, you can amass another full size attack force. No other faction can rapidly amass such an effective army in that time. Russia is a cheap tech cheese faction. Don't even need to invest in a silo.

Low eco is not an issue
Late game when money is an issue, no other faction has such bang-for-their-buck. This also removes much of the skill of deciding what units to use late game since the IC flaks and shockies are still just as effective in smaller numbers.

Counters are easily countered
V2s, artys, tanya, Hinds, Yaks, demos(?) are all countered so easily by IC'd flaks. Tanya in a pillbox can only survive so long. If you defend that engagement, the next attack in 2 minutes will include a couple V2s.

[Prince Blueblood]

I think fake building is good enough now even if they could be discrened by simple riflemen firing upon them. I against strenghtening the fakes actually, except with tossing another fake silo in order.

Now, when you're alone or in FFA, fake buildings admittedly useful only for short term in confusing your opponents. And it was good enough with proper macro planning (if your enemy hit your base too soon, he's either rushing or he's baiting you) so raid to discern which buildings are fakes are fine.

The real strength of fake buildings is in the team games, where you could practically pop buildings out of your Ally's shared CY build radius one. And put the fakes in considerably "protected" position would help your enemy to be misdirected into attacking the other thing when you kick him in the ass...

There is currently no skill involved in playing Russia.

No strategy in build orders
Since flaks and shockies effectively counter all air and ground, you don't have to make decisions about what unit you are going to build next. Other factions have to choose specific units depending on the situation. Do I build anti armour or ranged base attack from my WF? anti air or anti inf from the barracks? Shockies are so multirole (damage soak, anti inf, anti armour and anti base) they remove this strategy

Cheap and quickly massed attacks
Iron curtains recharge every two minutes. Shockies and flaks are insanely cheap ($400/$500). In the time it takes to recharge the curtain, you can amass another full size attack force. No other faction can rapidly amass such an effective army in that time. Russia is a cheap tech cheese faction. Don't even need to invest in a silo.

Low eco is not an issue
Late game when money is an issue, no other faction has such bang-for-their-buck. This also removes much of the skill of deciding what units to use late game since the IC flaks and shockies are still just as effective in smaller numbers.

Counters are easily countered
V2s, artys, tanya, Hinds, Yaks, demos(?) are all countered so easily by IC'd flaks. Tanya in a pillbox can only survive so long. If you defend that engagement, the next attack will include a couple V2s.

Basically flak trucks is fine with me, but yes, the shockies is indeed the main muscle of late Russian spam.

There's one VERY EFFECTIVE counter on them though, that's don't let them build any kind of tech lab at the first place. Let them suffer from expensive armor, Yaks that must get properly microed, and wittle under artillery spam

[AoAGeneral1]

Should the versus none = 1000 be removed then?

Testing RA98 the infantry did take a few shots before being electrocuted.

Found an example video as well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0WTwyFjVJ8

[Murto the Ray]

IC'd APCs work very well vs shock troopers; if you haven't tried that i suggest you do.

[Fahrrad]

the best way to stop a shock trooper + flak truck juggernaut army is a fucking wall. The enemy had to pull back and I had time to build a demo truck. Good bye shock troopers!

[PersianImmortal]

Mammoth tank and riflemen spam for lifeeeeee
Fuck your shock troopers

[newwe]

Taylor, you're alive? I thought you got mixed up with an Chicago crime family and your firm had you murdered or something.

And yeah, not sure mammoths+rifles>shocks+IC'd flaks.

[PersianImmortal]

Taylor, you're alive? I thought you got mixed up with an Chicago crime family and your firm had you murdered or something.

And yeah, not sure mammoths+rifles>shocks+IC'd flaks.

They haven't had me killed yet. Had a few close calls but I made it out unscathed lol.

I never understood the appeal of flak trucks. They're so lackluster imo and yeah shocks are great and all but if you're letting your opponent mass flak trucks and shocks you're doing something wrong.
As Soviet or allies going against Russia you should be pressuring the fuck out of them the entire game.

Also going to throw out the fact that if the soviets had better faction choice shock trooper spam wouldn't be as big of a deal. Ukraine blows. Plain and simple. Give me a soviet faction with air to air migs and longer ranged SAMs as its perks. Go ahead and take away paratroops and the flak truck to balance it. I'd play that faction all day.

[Murto the Ray]

Ukraine blows

I challenge thee to a 1v1, ill play as Ukraine; you can play as whatever you like.

[newwe]

Taylor, you're alive? I thought you got mixed up with an Chicago crime family and your firm had you murdered or something.

And yeah, not sure mammoths+rifles>shocks+IC'd flaks.

They haven't had me killed yet. Had a few close calls but I made it out unscathed lol.

I never understood the appeal of flak trucks. They're so lackluster imo and yeah shocks are great and all but if you're letting your opponent mass flak trucks and shocks you're doing something wrong.
As Soviet or allies going against Russia you should be pressuring the fuck out of them the entire game.

Also going to throw out the fact that if the soviets had better faction choice shock trooper spam wouldn't be as big of a deal. Ukraine blows. Plain and simple. Give me a soviet faction with air to air migs and longer ranged SAMs as its perks. Go ahead and take away paratroops and the flak truck to balance it. I'd play that faction all day.

Flaks are good against anything the allies have to pressure Russia. Ukraine has IC'd APCs and that's about it. Shocks and flaks are so cheap so it's not hard to let your opponent mass them.

*Dogs are actually a pretty good option to take out shockies, keep them back and once the shock troopers are engaged attack, they can take out a ton vv quickly.

Ukraine blows

I challenge thee to a 1v1, ill play as Ukraine; you can play as whatever you like.

I'd watch.

[the-zoidberger]

Ukraine blows

I challenge thee to a 1v1, ill play as Ukraine; you can play as whatever you like.

He said "thee" If you don't accept his challenge, I think he gets to slap you with a pink glittery glove or something.

[FiveAces]

PersianImmortal: Flaks might seem lackluster in a Soviet mirror match, but they can deal with all the Allied damage dealers
(mass Med tanks are easily taken care of by infantry, as they have neither the speed nor the damage to deal with them).

In no way do I consider Ukraine underpowered, the parabombs are an amazing support power
(they may be lackluster in 20k games on maps with endless resources or Tox maps, but they do sure pack a punch in 1v1 or 2v2 matches).
As of the recent spy buff, my personal faction tier list is Russia >>> Ukraine/Germany/England >>> France.
Air to air migs would be super broken, as they have the speed to outrun Longbow missiles.
Also, +1 to Newwe, I too would love to watch a match vs Murto!

[Murto the Ray]

He said "thee" If you don't accept his challenge, I think he gets to slap you with a pink glittery glove or something.

Its maroon actually, with golden glitters v.v

I'm away to Poland from later tomorrow until late on Friday; we can squeeze it in tomorrow or wait until i get back.

[Christian]

Flaks are good against anything the allies have to pressure Russia. Ukraine has IC'd APCs and that's about it. Shocks and flaks are so cheap so it's not hard to let your opponent mass them.

*Dogs are actually a pretty good option to take out shockies, keep them back and once the shock troopers are engaged attack, they can take out a ton vv quickly.

Ic'd flaks is not the only option though you can protect shocks with IC´d mammoths too and mammoths + shocks > mammoths + rifles for sure.

[PersianImmortal]

PersianImmortal: Flaks might seem lackluster in a Soviet mirror match, but they can deal with all the Allied damage dealers
(mass Med tanks are easily taken care of by infantry, as they have neither the speed nor the damage to deal with them).

In no way do I consider Ukraine underpowered, the parabombs are an amazing support power
(they may be lackluster in 20k games on maps with endless resources or Tox maps, but they do sure pack a punch in 1v1 or 2v2 matches).
As of the recent spy buff, my personal faction tier list is Russia >>> Ukraine/Germany/England >>> France.
Air to air migs would be super broken, as they have the speed to outrun Longbow missiles.
Also, +1 to Newwe, I too would love to watch a match vs Murto!

If you're letting a soviet continually iron curtain flaks against your arty creep you're doing something wrong.
And air to air migs wouldn't be OP. Longbows need a buff anyways. And the faction with air to air migs would lose the flak truck to balance it out.
And parabombs are shit compared to Russia. I've never lost a game or even really been set back by them.