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Swap The Range AND Ownership of Artillery and V2?
Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 7:25 am
by Prince Blueblood
Now, honestly, they are balanced as is now, and how to use them efficiently really make the mark of being different but balanced game.
The problem is, they seem to be more or less counterintuitive compared to Real Life, where Rocket Artilleries are supposed to outrange gun type artillery. And yes, just return to regularly played OpenRA again after some months of infrequent plays.
So, let me say this, why not try swap the Range AND Ownership of Artillery and V2?
Nerf the Artillery range to current V2 range, and give them to Soviets
Increase the V2 range to current Artillery range, and give them to Allies (who should have range advantage)
That way, things are run more or less better intuitively. With V2 outrange Artillery and Allies still have the range advantage.
* Yeah, I'm also aware that V2 is originally German weapon, and thus, should be more or less buildable by Germany (or Germany get a better version of it)
Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 10:23 am
by Murto the Ray
Why not just keep the ownership but swap the ranges?
Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 4:50 pm
by r34ch
Arty really is the hot topic at the moment...
Murto the Ray wrote: ↑Why not just keep the ownership but swap the ranges?
I was told V2 rushes used to break the game with their better range and alpha. It would be even more infuriating than arty at the moment.
Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 7:31 pm
by Murto the Ray
r34ch wrote: ↑Arty really is the hot topic at the moment...
Murto the Ray wrote: ↑Why not just keep the ownership but swap the ranges?
I was told V2 rushes used to break the game with their better range and alpha. It would be even more infuriating than arty at the moment.
Fair enough - id like to see what the game would be like without arty or V2s; it would be interesting
Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 10:28 pm
by RealAlert
I'd also like an option to disable them, just for fun. And an option to disable Nukes if that's possible.
Honestly, it wouldn't feel like Red Alert if allies had the rocket, that's just not the classic way! But I'm majorly in favor of editing their stats. Basically, I'd like to see them with the same range the rate of fire of the current V2. I also think the Arty should be priced similar to the current V2. A few of these units can turn the tide in a battle and break through a base, they are specialized and it shouldn't be economical to mass them in a normal game.
Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 10:44 pm
by scorp
Arty's high rate of fire does indeed look a bit odd at times. Was it always this high?
Posted: Tue May 05, 2015 12:24 am
by PersianImmortal
r34ch wrote: ↑Arty really is the hot topic at the moment...
Murto the Ray wrote: ↑Why not just keep the ownership but swap the ranges?
I was told V2 rushes used to break the game with their better range and alpha. It would be even more infuriating than arty at the moment.
I'm in favor of bringing the v2 Rush strat back with a small increase in v2 build time
It didn't break the game as much as some claimed. it was actually really easy to defend against if you were good at micro.
Posted: Tue May 05, 2015 5:42 am
by Prince Blueblood
RealAlert wrote: ↑I'd also like an option to disable them, just for fun. And an option to disable Nukes if that's possible.
Honestly, it wouldn't feel like Red Alert if allies had the rocket, that's just not the classic way! But I'm majorly in favor of editing their stats. Basically, I'd like to see them with the same range the rate of fire of the current V2. I also think the Arty should be priced similar to the current V2. A few of these units can turn the tide in a battle and break through a base, they are specialized and it shouldn't be economical to mass them in a normal game.
allies has the hind and no APC to drop their more specialized infantry...
one more unit swap shouln't break more of their feelings.
The range swap is needed because Allies close combat is weak, they need the range advantage.
And yes, what's the difference of V2 sniping buildings (for allies) because they currently could do that faster with their arty?
Posted: Tue May 05, 2015 3:51 pm
by Murto the Ray
Prince Blueblood wrote: ↑RealAlert wrote: ↑.
The range swap is needed because Allies close combat is weak, they need the range advantage.
And yes, what's the difference of V2 sniping buildings (for allies) because they currently could do that faster with their arty?
I think instead of trying to change these two around they should be nerfed in terms of price and more attention is put towards the allies' close combat. What do you find more fun? attacking units from safely inside your base or have close quarters battles where you have to actually micro your units?
After all, the sniper was just taken out of the game; a long range unit that could kill infantry from afar - doesn't sound too different from arty imo.
Posted: Tue May 05, 2015 6:28 pm
by r34ch
PersianImmortal wrote: ↑I'm in favor of bringing the v2 Rush strat back with a small increase in v2 build time
It didn't break the game as much as some claimed. it was actually really easy to defend against if you were good at micro.
Imho the less drastic measure would be making them the same price, with the same (lower) range. Arty keeps the RoF while V2s keeps the alpha.
They should be balanced like how the cruiser and missile sub currently are. Same price, same range, different characteristics to set them apart.
Posted: Wed May 06, 2015 12:50 am
by Prince Blueblood
Murto the Ray wrote: ↑Prince Blueblood wrote: ↑RealAlert wrote: ↑.
The range swap is needed because Allies close combat is weak, they need the range advantage.
And yes, what's the difference of V2 sniping buildings (for allies) because they currently could do that faster with their arty?
I think instead of trying to change these two around they should be nerfed in terms of price and more attention is put towards the allies' close combat. What do you find more fun? attacking units from safely inside your base or have close quarters battles where you have to actually micro your units?
After all, the sniper was just taken out of the game; a long range unit that could kill infantry from afar - doesn't sound too different from arty imo.
Depends... If Soviet manage to close up with heavy tanks + APC supports or worse, Mammoths, the Allies are goner.
The question is how to get close without being blasted to smithereens (by arty) in the first place.
I think we should keep alied range advantage, yes soviet close combat is stronger, but their heavy tanks also much more expensive, so it kinda already balanced.
Posted: Wed May 06, 2015 6:00 am
by squirrel
We could nerf the artillery attack to be effective against infantry and buildings (like it is right now) but chickenshite against armored vehicles (medium tanks, heavy tanks, flaks...).
I also think that the delaying time of the arty should be increased a little bit more, so the arty gets the same range (needed for the Allies strat) but with a slower timing hit.
Maybe we can buff grenadiers so their grenades would be super effective against artys, and not that ridiculous damage they do to all tanks (grenadiers need a speed-throwing buff)
Posted: Wed May 06, 2015 6:34 am
by Murto the Ray
squirrel wrote: ↑We could nerf the artillery attack to be effective against infantry and buildings (like it is right now) but chickenshite against armored vehicles (medium tanks, heavy tanks, flaks...).
I also think that the delaying time of the arty should be increased a little bit more, so the arty gets the same range (needed for the Allies strat) but with a slower timing hit.
Maybe we can buff grenadiers so their grenades would be super effective against artys, and not that ridiculous damage they do to all tanks (grenadiers need a speed-throwing buff)
I think that's a workable idea and would encourage allies to not use only artillery but tanks as well
Posted: Wed May 06, 2015 8:44 am
by Prince Blueblood
Murto the Ray wrote: ↑squirrel wrote: ↑We could nerf the artillery attack to be effective against infantry and buildings (like it is right now) but chickenshite against armored vehicles (medium tanks, heavy tanks, flaks...).
I also think that the delaying time of the arty should be increased a little bit more, so the arty gets the same range (needed for the Allies strat) but with a slower timing hit.
Maybe we can buff grenadiers so their grenades would be super effective against artys, and not that ridiculous damage they do to all tanks (grenadiers need a speed-throwing buff)
I think that's a workable idea and would encourage allies to not use only artillery but tanks as well
maybe, because in 75% of games I put myself into, the Allies only build arty, choppers, and infantry. And especially freakton of arty later on...
And Soviet Tanks are too expensive to be produced en masse... and to weak in few numbers to charge through artillery line, unless you secure air supremacy...
Posted: Wed May 06, 2015 6:04 pm
by r34ch
RealAlert wrote: ↑The range swap is needed because Allies close combat is weak, they need the range advantage.
That's like saying;
'Allies are OP early game, but Soviets are OP late game. That's balanced'.
If soviets have some advantage at some tier in the game, surely it would be more logical to buff the allied units at that tier that no ones using.