Soviet tactic -- Flamethrower infantry
Soviet tactic -- Flamethrower infantry
So this seems to be a common tactic used by the soviet side -- send in one or more armoured personnel carriers, filled with flamethrower infantry. Five of them will take out base parts very fast.
Best ways to defend against this tactic?
I think in the original they only became available with a tech centre, (?), whereas with OpenRA they become available when you merely build a flame tower.
Best ways to defend against this tactic?
I think in the original they only became available with a tech centre, (?), whereas with OpenRA they become available when you merely build a flame tower.
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- Posts: 9
- Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:05 pm
You're right about the tech tree. I wonder if the techcenter unlocks both flamethrowers and tesla troopers in the aftermath edition
Any anti-infantry is ok imo as long as it is either armored or has a longer range than flamethrowers... They're not that deadly if we consider their slowness. You can keep an arty or APC handy in the base to counter loaded APC and paras, but a single f-turret or pillbox can do the trick.
Any anti-infantry is ok imo as long as it is either armored or has a longer range than flamethrowers... They're not that deadly if we consider their slowness. You can keep an arty or APC handy in the base to counter loaded APC and paras, but a single f-turret or pillbox can do the trick.
- BaronOfStuff
- Posts: 438
- Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 7:25 pm
Nope... just a Tesla Coil will unlock Shock Troopers in RA95. And they outclass Flamethrowers in every way!KonshusKeboobZionist wrote: ↑You're right about the tech tree. I wonder if the techcenter unlocks both flamethrowers and tesla troopers in the aftermath edition
when you play as allies , best (early) defense : Pillbox
just hold a finished pillbox in the defense tree as often as you can , until your first hind is up ... as soon as the flamethrower infantry jumps out , place it near them
keep sure after placing the pillbox , to give em the flamethrower-infantry as target ... because if you place it wrong , pillbox will lock on the apc first ...
after your first hind is up , theres no way your enemy can succeed with that tactic ... but always keep an eye on your base ... some players try it later on in the game
last one ... (works with every faction) ... mines ... , 1 mine can instant kill a apc
when you playing soviet , flame towers and teslas will do the job ... same as pillbox goes for the flametower , manually target the infantry that jumps out of the apc ...
snipers could also work probably
edit : for allies a arty inside your base is also a good choice ...
just hold a finished pillbox in the defense tree as often as you can , until your first hind is up ... as soon as the flamethrower infantry jumps out , place it near them
keep sure after placing the pillbox , to give em the flamethrower-infantry as target ... because if you place it wrong , pillbox will lock on the apc first ...
after your first hind is up , theres no way your enemy can succeed with that tactic ... but always keep an eye on your base ... some players try it later on in the game
last one ... (works with every faction) ... mines ... , 1 mine can instant kill a apc
when you playing soviet , flame towers and teslas will do the job ... same as pillbox goes for the flametower , manually target the infantry that jumps out of the apc ...
snipers could also work probably
edit : for allies a arty inside your base is also a good choice ...
im sorry for that , zoidberg
ill try to keep the discussion about it going and im sure we will find a good solution for the problem ... im not a fan of "nerfing" or "buffing" units constantly all the time ... because it changes the game experiment in every release ...
but the obvious things ... tactics that get used over and over again which you cant counter or only with sacrifices or luck ... (regardless if soviet ur allies) should get fixed imo
ill try to keep the discussion about it going and im sure we will find a good solution for the problem ... im not a fan of "nerfing" or "buffing" units constantly all the time ... because it changes the game experiment in every release ...
but the obvious things ... tactics that get used over and over again which you cant counter or only with sacrifices or luck ... (regardless if soviet ur allies) should get fixed imo
A pill box can stop it. As you mentioned yourself you need to make sure you target the troops.JOo wrote: ↑@zinc :
it sometimes works ? i basicly works with a 95% success chance ... with every +apc filled with flamethrowers the chance gets better ... and it requires no skills or experience to perform ...
Or have some troops spread near vital base parts.
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exactly! and you have got to have defenses in your base anyway for all other sneaky attacks. Imo this tactic with flamethrowers is just one like the others, but perhaps easier to perform. Yet still... you got to do it. And... you have to defend for it.
A possibility however would be to tone down the effectiveness of flamethrowers versus buildings. I think that one flamethrowers destroys any building before 3/4 mammoths, or 15 light tanks... thats a bit to much. Perhaps tone their effectiveness vs buildings done to 90% what it is today? Still very effective, but not THAT effective,
A possibility however would be to tone down the effectiveness of flamethrowers versus buildings. I think that one flamethrowers destroys any building before 3/4 mammoths, or 15 light tanks... thats a bit to much. Perhaps tone their effectiveness vs buildings done to 90% what it is today? Still very effective, but not THAT effective,
i would suggest you guys read what i did write on the github issue ...
https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/issues/7503
"it might be possible to defend 1 apc with 5 flamethrowers , but even then it can be really hard , if you dont expect the apc ... (and seriously ... people should have the chance to to setup a quick defense for every sneaky/easy rush-tactics) "
Pillboxes have the problem to get triggered by the APC , but does no damage whatsoever ... instead , the owner of the Pillbox has to wait until the enemy "unloads" the flamethrowers ... and then he has to manually target every enemy .... after every dead target , the pillbox-targeting will jump back to the enemy Apc (depends on the randomness of the "cargo drop" ... ) and you have to pick the next target again ...
the pillbox-cannon needs for every passenger 2 shots ... (the flamethrower might have less health then a e1 ... but its enough so the pillbox needs still 2 bursts to bring a flamethrower down)
a pillbox does 30 damage on infantry ...
e1 has 50hp
flamethrower has 40hp
this has a hudge impact when 5 enemy flamethrowers get unloadet right beside a Construction Yard
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and now ... dont imagine this with 1 apc and 5 flamethrowers ... imagine this with 3-4 apcs ... filled with 15-20 flamethrowers ...
https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/issues/7503
"it might be possible to defend 1 apc with 5 flamethrowers , but even then it can be really hard , if you dont expect the apc ... (and seriously ... people should have the chance to to setup a quick defense for every sneaky/easy rush-tactics) "
thats is correct , but that works only for 1 filled apc (and a conyard will barely survive)zinc wrote: ↑A pill box can stop it. As you mentioned yourself you need to make sure you target the troops.
Pillboxes have the problem to get triggered by the APC , but does no damage whatsoever ... instead , the owner of the Pillbox has to wait until the enemy "unloads" the flamethrowers ... and then he has to manually target every enemy .... after every dead target , the pillbox-targeting will jump back to the enemy Apc (depends on the randomness of the "cargo drop" ... ) and you have to pick the next target again ...
the pillbox-cannon needs for every passenger 2 shots ... (the flamethrower might have less health then a e1 ... but its enough so the pillbox needs still 2 bursts to bring a flamethrower down)
a pillbox does 30 damage on infantry ...
e1 has 50hp
flamethrower has 40hp
this has a hudge impact when 5 enemy flamethrowers get unloadet right beside a Construction Yard
______________________________
and now ... dont imagine this with 1 apc and 5 flamethrowers ... imagine this with 3-4 apcs ... filled with 15-20 flamethrowers ...
- Murto the Ray
- Posts: 487
- Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 4:34 pm
This tactic works both ways; they can either get a lot of damage done to your base or you destroy their rush and suddenly a majority of the start of the game was a complete waste for them. In my own opinion you should always have enough units out at the start of the game to stop a rush or at least delay one long enough to get some more units out.
Plus is this not incomparable to the phase transport-tanya "rush" that the allies can do later game but with larger consequences - as an allies player i'd gladly trade off the flamer rush for the phase transport-tanya rush
Also, thanks for creating that ticket on github; i agree on the issue of defensive structures not prioritizing targets as they should.
I have to agree that flamethrowers should do a lot less damage to buildings; after all if i used a flamethrower on the side of my own house then hardly anything would happen..... Then again this is OpenRA and they probably have Plasma Flamethrowers or something.....noobmapmaker wrote: ↑ exactly! and you have got to have defenses in your base anyway for all other sneaky attacks. Imo this tactic with flamethrowers is just one like the others, but perhaps easier to perform. Yet still... you got to do it. And... you have to defend for it.
A possibility however would be to tone down the effectiveness of flamethrowers versus buildings. I think that one flamethrowers destroys any building before 3/4 mammoths, or 15 light tanks... thats a bit to much. Perhaps tone their effectiveness vs buildings done to 90% what it is today? Still very effective, but not THAT effective,
Plus is this not incomparable to the phase transport-tanya "rush" that the allies can do later game but with larger consequences - as an allies player i'd gladly trade off the flamer rush for the phase transport-tanya rush
Also, thanks for creating that ticket on github; i agree on the issue of defensive structures not prioritizing targets as they should.