Shroud in CNC - should be off by default

[psydev]

Hey, all.

I think we should get rid of shroud for CNC skirmishes/multiplayer. I know that some people like it in RA for the gap generator, etc. but it doesn't really have any use in CNC. Currently, you have to turn on a "cheat" to disable shroud. Shroud should just be off by default instead.

Modern RTSes have gotten rid of shroud, because it is archaic. Before fog of war, there was shroud, which was designed when games were mostly single-player. But shroud doesn't make sense anymore for most multiplayer games, so we should get rid of it.
When you play multiplayer matches, you usually already know the map, so it is just a chore to explore the map every single game. These days, all RTS multiplayer games start with the map terrain explored, so that players have equal understanding of the map (in case one player knows the map better). I think we should do this, too.

[riderr3]

May be optional, in some battle mode? Shroud is important thing in RTS.

[MrHello]

He means the black all over the map thats unexplored I think it should be a game option to have that off and the see through fog to be another option

[SoScared]

The shroud isn't pivotal for Red Alert multiplayer. I'd love to see an 'explored' option in the gamelobby in the near future.

For repeated clarification, 'shroud' is the blacked out areas of the map, as opposed to (the absolutely necessary) 'fog of war' which is hiding enemy units from your view.

[psydev]

For repeated clarification, 'shroud' is the blacked out areas of the map, as opposed to (the absolutely necessary) 'fog of war' which is hiding enemy units from your view.

Yes.
For some reason the cheat which turns off fog of war is incorrectly labelled "turn off shroud" instead.

[foul_owl]

We should have options for each possible mode, come up with an intuitive and descriptive naming convention, and come to a community consensus on the defaults.

[Matt]

There is already a naming convention: http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Shroud is the black stuff where you can't see anything not even the terrain and http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Fog_of_war only makes the enemy invisible. OpenRA supports both. I also like the C&C generals approach which only enables Shroud in single-player. Maybe the radar could explore the maps without revealing enemy locations (only the map/terrain) unlike the GPS satellite.

[-Jes-]

Modern RTSes have gotten rid of shroud

Not really, though they have blurred the difference between Shroud and FoW. (typically the terrain is visible through a darker overlay while all else is hidden)

Anyway, fog of war in openra isn't really functional enough to be used on it's own.
It itself can't truly be disabled (only hacked - projectiles and effects still vanish), buildings are poorly supported (hidden until seen or not, no spysat distinction) and bibs aren't supported at all. (always visible)

[psydev]

Anyway, fog of war in openra isn't really functional enough to be used on it's own.
It itself can't truly be disabled (only hacked - projectiles and effects still vanish), buildings are poorly supported (hidden until seen or not, no spysat distinction) and bibs aren't supported at all. (always visible)

I thought these things were fixable (but just low priority bugfixes).


Was there ever any plan to stop units (e.g. artillery) from shooting at units they can't see?

[Matt]

Was there ever any plan to stop units (e.g. artillery) from shooting at units they can't see?

This is fixed with https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/pull/2507

[psydev]

In original C&C, when an enemy unit shot at you (usually long range) from within the shroud, that would make themselves visible to you, along with a few squares around them. Is this possible/will this be implemented?

[Surrealistik]

Was there ever any plan to stop units (e.g. artillery) from shooting at units they can't see?

This is fixed with https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/pull/2507

Love it; arty blindfiring was one of the most annoying things in the game as it stands next to depot/strip pathfinding.