Balance thread for release 20190314

Trying to locate my missing ore trucks

Discussion about the game and its default mods.
Printer
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Re: Balance thread for release 20190314

Post by Printer » Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:37 pm

Really like the idea of units that can re-set the superweapon.

Would spies and thieves resetting the counter be interesting to higher tier players??

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netnazgul
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Re: Balance thread for release 20190314

Post by netnazgul » Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:32 pm

Edi(son Coil) wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:45 pm
What in particular is out of line with this "spirit", so I can improve my perception?
Well, the core idea of working on RA1 is to try and preserve the original unit integrity where possible and not make it into a RA2 backwards clone, unless changes are an absolute nesessity. Flak truck did fit it quite naturally though. And there are coming attempts to restore the units disposition, for example reimplementing Hind as a Soviet unit is in the works.

Same goes for game features. We can tweak and repurpose units to have the factions balanced, but "MGG shroud kills air units" just sounds out of place.

Also, some things (like silenting the audio queues for opponents) are just not implementable in a reasonable amount of time.
Edi(son Coil) wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:45 pm
Since the flak truck makes the hind totally useless and there is no counterplay ( yes, using the obstructions of the terrain to fuck up the pathing,can help, but good luck with that ), because the flak truck is faster and has more range, but the early game against ground units is fine.
Well, it would be much easier to nerf flak's anti-air capabilities instead. It does, to my thought, outperform vs air now that it can aqcuire and fire at targets while moving. My suggestion would be to either reduce its fire rate or its AA damage output.

lawANDorder
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Re: Balance thread for release 20190314

Post by lawANDorder » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:16 am

I think we should really start considering removin the flak truck. It was added before aircraft could fly. It was not added for air balance and - like any custom added unit - doesnot fit it "quite naturally" (no matter how much you like it), it is a RA2 backwards clone with custom artwork. It would only be consequential and I fully agree with

> Well, the core idea of working on RA1 is to try and preserve the original unit integrity where possible and not make it into a RA2 backwards clone

People sometimes make it sound that the flak truck is a smart balance result and "absolute required" but that's not the case. And if its addition/removal breaks balance, well then we have to fix it.

lawANDorder
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Re: Balance thread for release 20190314

Post by lawANDorder » Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:10 pm

we had a discussion about the flak truck and it seems to be better to defer any fundamental thoughts about removing the unit to a later point when all the ongoing changes are done and have evolved properly.

Sigil
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Re: Balance thread for release 20190314

Post by Sigil » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:46 pm

I wouldn't be opposed to slowing the flak truck down slightly to reduce the effectiveness of chasing down hinds. They're strong but there is still a lot of counter play around them. This keeps it line with the other AA where they're lethal to air units but if you manage to avoid them the investment into air can pay off in dividends. I don't like the idea of nerfing the damage, I'd prefer trying out a speed decrease or making them slightly more expensive first.

Edi(son Coil)
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Re: Balance thread for release 20190314

Post by Edi(son Coil) » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:29 pm

EDIT
EDIT2

I present you my reworked suggestions( not that anyone asked for them ), I tried to rearrange/change the units so every faction has a distinct playstyle.

Everything should now be in line with the spirit.



Russia: Tesla Weapons

If you like the sound of Tesla and you just want more combat units and mirco them well( Tesla tanks and flak trucks), then is the faction for you.

Tesla Tank: Nothing new

Shock trooper: gets a anti-tank focus like suggested, soviets already have four anti-infantry infantry: rifles, grens, flamer and dogs



Ukraine: Demolitions

If you want to press a button and let things explode, then is the faction for you.

Parabombs: Nothing new, they get a buff with directional ability use anyway

Demo truck: cost down to 1200, in the most probable case you get a hind (1500) and I think for that price it justifies the risk of using it



Germany: Technology

If you really like to chrono around, this is the faction for you.


Advanced chronoshift: Reduced cooldown by a third/half



Chrono tank: is not a feasible choice, it loses against most of the vehicles when the assets are more or less even:

It (costs 1350 + cost for tech) loses against: 2 light tanks (1400), 2 medium tanks(1700), 1 heavy tank(1150), 3 ranger(1500), 1 tesla tank(1350), 2 flak trucks(1200). You might lose a medium tank or rangers, dependingn on micro

Sure, it can jump, if it is low and can get repaired but so does the other vehicle. The light tank, the ranger and the flak truck should be able to follow the chrono tank more or less.

But the real issue is since you are building chrono tanks instead of mediums and you are losing against the almighty flak truck your enemy can just spam flak trucks all day because you dont have any heavy armour.

Jumping on (unscattered) infantry might be worth it, if you can get out for free, but if your enemy has the mentioned vehicles and aircraft around and there are almost the same amount of assets on both sides, I can't see it working, since you are jumping into enemy and can't get out immediately.

Change: cost down 1100




England: Counterintelligence

If you enjoy using the spy and annoy your opponent, this is the faction for you.

Spy: Removed from standard allies unit set, special unit of England

Reworked benefits of Infiltration:

Refinery: steals credits (again), could also show the credits of your enemy for a time
barracks/warfactory/airfield: first time gets veterancy, after that slows production for a period of time
SD: next vehicle on the SD gets destroyed
Conyard: shows production queue like in the original, after that slows production for a period of time
Sub Pen: (bug?/design?)If the Sub Pen is offshore, the spy can't enter, gets veterancy to naval units besides
the sonar pulse
super weapons: reset the cooldown
tech center: disables tier 3 unit production for a period of time


Phase tansport: Support unit for the spy, provides stealth, can crush dogs/infantry/fence and can tank base defences



France: Base pushi

If you enjoy base pushing, but you think soviets have the upper hand on that one, then this the faction for you

MAD-tank: cost to 500, for that price I would buy it

MGG: cost to 300 , same here



Clean up:

Fake structures: all allies get them as in the original




Flak truck:

Anti - air cannon gets the same range as hind,
they should still trade 2 flaks for 1 hind (which is fine) and it gives more reaction time for the other aircraft before they fall out of
the sky

Grenadiers/Flamers:

They are too similiar and the grens suffer the same fate as the light tank, but even worse because the required tech is
even cheaper. Changing them to another tech building and buffing their stats would break the low tech apc flamer drop but you can still use grens.



Nuke silo: costs 2500 ( + 500 for power ) and the nuke has a cooldown of 9 minutes and a timer for the enemy, that is not feasible, it's not even a balance issue because it's the same on both sides, but it should be buffed, so the meta shifts more to the nuke.


Change: cost 1500 without the timer or cost 1500 with timer but 4:30 minutes

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