Redesigning and Balancing TD

Let´s take a new approach together!

Discussion about the game and its default mods.
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Beans
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Re: Redesigning and Balancing TD

Post by Beans » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:50 am

AoAGeneral1 wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:39 pm
There are a lot of changes in this mod. Do you have replays of the games played in the mod versions?
Welcome back AoAgeneral, I'm not aware of any of the maps being played voluntarily, e.g not being hosted by the creator, however surely there must be at least a couple of replays out there? I myself think there are far too many changes at once to be able to properly test it and diagnose things, just a guessing game to know whats causing what. Sculpting tools needed, not sledgehammer.

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ZxGanon
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Re: Redesigning and Balancing TD

Post by ZxGanon » Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:03 pm

There are good ammount of teamgames recorded, But on 1.3 and not with 1.4 so we gotta gather some till than.

I havent modded enough teamgame maps since the small TD community now downgraded completely to a teamgame only lobby.

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Beans
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Re: Redesigning and Balancing TD

Post by Beans » Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:46 pm

ZxGanon wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:03 pm
There are good ammount of teamgames recorded, But on 1.3 and not with 1.4 so we gotta gather some till than.

I havent modded enough teamgame maps since the small TD community now downgraded completely to a teamgame only lobby.
This is a bogus and manipulative comment, I don't know when you first came to TD but its always been mostly team games, thats what most people like. There are some players that play 1v1 whenever they want to and thats fine for them. In RA its mostly team games also and I would suggest its a similar ratio. Also, we now have more players than ever over the last 6 years.


You cant just keep manipulating reality to suit your position ZXGanon, that aside I'm sure we will all happily play your mods if you calm down with the authoritarian approach & insults.

010010
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Re: Redesigning and Balancing TD

Post by 010010 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:23 pm

Dont see any chance for good gameplay when you cant comment correct. You wasted CD and SP. Now you are starting to invect TD with your bad super spam balance. OpenRA is an Open Source Game with still old CnC Players. They are playing CnCNet or OpenRA. And you are not working on the right point. The Point is still making an open source version from the old Westwood games. With sligtly changes. Not making old Westwood RTS with EA CnC Balancing.

Stop your childish challenge agains evreyone. You are not important enough in this world.

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Sleipnir
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Re: Redesigning and Balancing TD

Post by Sleipnir » Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:01 pm

Please be mindful of the forum rules. There are many ways to disagree with someone without being abusive or agressive.

010010
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Re: Redesigning and Balancing TD

Post by 010010 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:21 pm

Yes but not with a guy who is calling you 2 years an idiot or faggot in many ways. And starting to try the 3rd game to make it bad. I am not alone with my thinks. But most from the others are long time gone. Because they have not longer fun with playing OpenRA.

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Graion Dilach
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Re: Redesigning and Balancing TD

Post by Graion Dilach » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:49 pm

010010 wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:23 pm
You wasted CD and SP.
Ganon played a major reason why CD had a wave of activity and why we've got an SP released. Have you seen the CD before Ganon? Do you have any idea how the CD before Ganon played or aimed to be? For starters, it wanted to have 10 tech levels (cut down to 5 in the end) which would have started from stone age to space age pretty much, with every second tier introducing a unit taking over an underling's entire functionality.

Do remember that I joined to CD before it restarted on OpenRA. I should still have the last TS internal somewhere around, where are only two tiers out of those aforementioned 10 implemented.

It wasn't Ganon what killed CD, but the fact that Astor dropped out with promises which ultimately turned out to be not happening and noone else felt to take the mantle due to all those faction planning without proper artwork when the fallout happened. That's why the Ganon powertrio (with Void and jrb) moved over to SP - because Nolt was around and had everything excluding gameplay by that point - he even gave up on SP by then, due to seeing it complete, but unplayable and knew he can't get it kickstarted without outside help.

Sure, Ganon's manners ain't the best and he is quite blunt but he has some working ideas about gameplay and I haven't really seen much issues with how they work. If you can explain your gameplay issues on the meta level reasonably, he will listen.

I can tell you worse people within this community - people who were eager to backstab me immediately when I wasn't doing how they wanted me to and who made me realize that working for this project was my biggest mistake in my entire life. I would gladly take Ganon over them.

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Orb
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Re: Redesigning and Balancing TD

Post by Orb » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:41 pm

Ooo, this thread is getting too hot.

I'd like to point out that ZxGannon is not replacing AoA. Those shoes are still empty. This is simply a mod for TD. I honestly think this thread should get moved to the modding subforum and a new TD balance thread should be made.

Ideally someone who is a part of the TD community should start the discussion.

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Beans
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Re: Redesigning and Balancing TD

Post by Beans » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:07 am

Orb wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:41 pm
Ooo, this thread is getting too hot.

I'd like to point out that ZxGannon is not replacing AoA. Those shoes are still empty. This is simply a mod for TD. I honestly think this thread should get moved to the modding subforum and a new TD balance thread should be made.

Ideally someone who is a part of the TD community should start the discussion.
I believe the changes in the MOD are a preamble to changes ZxGanon wishes to make to the core game, if this was not the case then the tread belongs in the Mod subforum as you suggest. However it is not the case as evidenced in the title of the thread, ( Redesigning ad balancing TD). I think from the title of this thread and discussions with Zx it is abundantly clear that the intention is to implement these changes if possible.


With regards to your point about things getting too hot, I have to disagree, I think all thats been shown is some passion for the game and this is healthy, we are all adults and I don't foresee any long term damage from this open and healthy debate. ZxgGanon and I discussed some issues in game last night and it was very amicable and reasonable discussion. I think 010's posts are more of a language barrier issue than anything inflammatory being intended. I don't see censorship as a reasonable recourse in this case but of course thats up to the moderators to decide, not us.


On another note, we are all happy to see the return of AoAGeneral and this presents an opportunity for a balanced approach moving forwards. The release is new and there has been nothing but positive responses so far with regards to player numbers, given that, it is too early to be jumping to any conclusions at this stage. It is a time for observation and reflection.
Last edited by Beans on Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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anjew
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Re: Redesigning and Balancing TD

Post by anjew » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:23 am

ZxGanon wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:36 pm
Yeah and that´s why TD is the most played mod and everyone loves AoA. Oh man beans sometimes I dont know if you are a huge troll or actually serious.
Beans wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:09 pm
Naturally if I disagree with ZxGanon I must be a troll, I guess the only way I cannot be a troll is if agree with what you say, or be quiet altogether.
This is a very common theme and the main reason I have given up having any communication with Ganon, especially after he took time out of a FiveAces livestream to publically disparage and denigrate me for only having a different opinion.
Graion Dilach wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:49 pm
Sure, Ganon's manners ain't the best
There is a difference between having some manners and failing to debate respectfully; and maintaining integrity as a member of the OpenRA community. Id rather he didnt say please and thanks but was able to have a discourse or debate without attacking the person who puts forward the suggestion.
Graion Dilach wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:49 pm
worse people within this community - people who were eager to backstab me immediately when I wasn't doing how they wanted me to
Don't be so modest.

010010
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Re: Redesigning and Balancing TD

Post by 010010 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:15 pm

lol yes its redesigning and Balancing TD. We dont need it. Because the game is nearly balanced. Its just some simple changes what AoA never wanted or fear. Hmm fear unit changes like giving stank heavy Armor and a bit less HP.

Why no one said it is just a Modmap? Fun for yourself.

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ZxGanon
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Re: Redesigning and Balancing TD

Post by ZxGanon » Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:35 pm

010010 wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:15 pm
lol yes its redesigning and Balancing TD. We dont need it. Because the game is nearly balanced. Its just some simple changes what AoA never wanted or fear. Hmm fear unit changes like giving stank heavy Armor and a bit less HP.

Why no one said it is just a Modmap? Fun for yourself.
If you consider balanced that Nod is literally unplayable in 1v1 than sure I dont wanna crush your dreambubble.

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Beans
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Re: Redesigning and Balancing TD

Post by Beans » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:06 am

You play NOD, I play GDI, you will likely win 9 out of 10 times, and if I win 1, I have to get lucky.

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Kiraye
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Re: Redesigning and Balancing TD

Post by Kiraye » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:03 pm

Beans wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:06 am
You play NOD, I play GDI, you will likely win 9 out of 10 times, and if I win 1, I have to get lucky.
Of course what he is talking about is applies to similar skill level. (altough I wonder with the old APC, could it "negate" the skill difference?)

Hey but I would be interested to see this in practice, 10 games between the 2 of you. (and 10 on the patch with the old APC)

For science my dudes. :D

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Beans
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Re: Redesigning and Balancing TD

Post by Beans » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:03 pm

Thats exactly my point, thankyou, the better skill player will have the most chance of winning, regardless of faction choice. Proving the balance is overall very good.



It is skill level and micro abilities that wins TD, not faction choice, and thats how it should be.

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