very advaced tactic multisoul

why do this

Discussion about the game and its default mods.
savagafrenchman
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:21 pm

very advaced tactic multisoul

Post by savagafrenchman » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:26 pm

hello i am french

I play this game many time mostly ore garden map 4 souls vs 4

i am still learn to play [neeb] but i must report a bad tactic too powerful!

I am play and TRUCKS are teleport into my base become buildings, also many gunturret and gunbox appear impossible to defence with man building also produce army quickly, garage appear and nuclear unit made to explode base instantly

you have onion on this?

Jur
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:36 pm

Re: very advaced tactic multisoul

Post by Jur » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:28 pm

they have onions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5v9YgCHJPYw

also MCV chrono to base was nerfed a little in the new playtest. It losses 50% hp if it stays deployed.

pointbreak
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:54 am

Re: very advaced tactic multisoul

Post by pointbreak » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:42 am

Jur wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:28 pm
also MCV chrono to base was nerfed a little in the new playtest. It losses 50% hp if it stays deployed.
Why would it stay deployed at all? The Chronosphere is a thing that sends a vehicle to a place then takes it back. If it doesn't send yards back, why should it send tanks back at all? It makes no sense at all. And it takes 2 seconds to send an engineer into the mcv. It's stupid from every angle. Game design, balance, fun, playability, it all goes down the shitter with chrono mcv. You're fighting this awesome battle when suddenly an entire base spawns behind you and the only thing you can do is quit and stick to NoChronoMCV maps.

I dont remember the cutscene in Red Alert where the general says:

Image

"Commander, the Chronosphere doesn't work too well, it's instable and it might lead to unforeseen side effects... however... we have found one weak spot in the space time continuum, you can chrono an entire base and have it stay there!!"

I just don't remember that, maybe someone can show it to me on youtube.

User avatar
avalach21
Posts: 212
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:01 pm

Re: very advaced tactic multisoul

Post by avalach21 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:59 pm

pointbreak wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:42 am
Jur wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:28 pm
also MCV chrono to base was nerfed a little in the new playtest. It losses 50% hp if it stays deployed.
Why would it stay deployed at all? The Chronosphere is a thing that sends a vehicle to a place then takes it back. If it doesn't send yards back, why should it send tanks back at all? It makes no sense at all. And it takes 2 seconds to send an engineer into the mcv. It's stupid from every angle. Game design, balance, fun, playability, it all goes down the shitter with chrono mcv. You're fighting this awesome battle when suddenly an entire base spawns behind you and the only thing you can do is quit and stick to NoChronoMCV maps.

I dont remember the cutscene in Red Alert where the general says:

Image

"Commander, the Chronosphere doesn't work too well, it's instable and it might lead to unforeseen side effects... however... we have found one weak spot in the space time continuum, you can chrono an entire base and have it stay there!!"

I just don't remember that, maybe someone can show it to me on youtube.
Page 43 of the manual:

Red Alert 1 Manual
CHRONOSPHERE
ARMOR:
Light
PURPOSE:
Allows chronoshift
The evolution of the Philadelphia Experiment,
the Chronosphere allows the Allied player to
move a unit from one location to an other
without having to cross the space in between.
However, the unit will only exist in its new
location for a brief time before returning to its
point of origin. This technology is still a bit
unstable. Using it on certain units or using it
constantly could produce unusual side effects.
Note how the technology is "unstable"... "Using it on 'certain units' OR using it constantly could 'produce unusual side effects'..."

By certain units, how about an MCV, which now is deployed into a permanent structure (Con Yard)... wouldn't it make sense that the unstable Chronosphere would struggle to return a 'certain unit' that is now a fully deployed structure? (since the Chronosphere CAN'T move structures under normal circumstances) I think it makes sense that an 'Unusual side effect' occurs, that being the Chrono Vortex.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PZYoV1pwF0

I'm sure it's not out of the realm of possibilities that in a future release after a bit more dev time, the Chrono Vortex will also behave a bit more similarly to the way it originally did (moving around randomly) on top of its currently implemented function, especially being triggered at random by "using it constantly."

Why would it stay deployed at all?
Why should it stay deployed at all? I mean that's how it worked in the original game, both RA1 and RA2.. so that's a good reference point to begin with. In fact, there is even a mission where they Chrono in an MCV for you, and you deploy it and it stays deployed indefinitely..
The Chronosphere is a thing that sends a vehicle to a place then takes it back.
Notice the key word, Vehicle? The MCV is no longer a Vehicle when it is deployed.. it is a Construction Yard, which is a structure, which is not possible to be chronoshifted..
And it takes 2 seconds to send an engineer into the mcv.
And it takes 2 seconds to deploy an already completed War Factory with a nearly finished MCV queued up, then have the MCV come out and deploy it... voila, you have also successfully circumvented the forcing of the MCV to go back. Having to build a barracks.. train an engineer, micro all this stuff (without getting it killed) while simultaneously holding off the person whose base you just teleported into definitely will add extra money/time/micro investment which all will contribute to nerfing the strength of this strategy..

If your ally has a chronosphere... build some base defense in the back corners of your base.. keep units around as scouts to make sure they don't set up shop in nearby area covered by shroud. You can HEAR when the chronosphere is used... I think that maybe countdown timers for Chronosphere and Iron Curtain should be visible to all players a la RA2, and the way GPS/Atom Bomb currently work..
Last edited by avalach21 on Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Sleipnir
Posts: 715
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2002 11:52 pm
Contact:

Re: very advaced tactic multisoul

Post by Sleipnir » Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:50 pm

The original plan was for the next release to return conyards as well as MCVs, but this was abandoned after it received a very strong negative reaction from the MP community.

pointbreak
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:54 am

Re: very advaced tactic multisoul

Post by pointbreak » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:37 pm

avalach21 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:59 pm
wouldn't it make sense
No. It makes absolutely no sense from a lore and more importantly game design perspective. Not in the mood to reply to the entirety of your mental gymnastics written out to justified a broken game mechanic. Even Starcraft had flying buildings that could be built anywhere, but it didn't have a instant transportable base.

By your logic I could simply write "the unforeseen consequences are that if I chrono a demotruck it expodes 10 times as hard!!!".
Sleipnir wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:50 pm
The original plan was for the next release to return conyards as well as MCVs, but this was abandoned after it received a very strong negative reaction from the MP community.
Cough bullshit cough. Probably you like it that way. I've seen games that listened to the bullshit corner of the community for too long. Ever heard of Wurm Online? No? Not surprised. 10 years of "admin pls cater to my needs even if it breaks the game".

I'll just stick to NoChrono maps and insta quit everytime someone chronos a base. Even winning like that sucks.

It could have been made a setting in the options too but I guess the community was against that too, right?

User avatar
Sleipnir
Posts: 715
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2002 11:52 pm
Contact:

Re: very advaced tactic multisoul

Post by Sleipnir » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:20 pm

pointbreak wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:37 pm
Cough bullshit cough. Probably you like it that way. I've seen games that listened to the bullshit corner of the community for too long.
Watch your attitude, the aggression is unnecessary and unwelcome. Abusing the people who are trying to help you is generally not a good idea if your goal is to see change in a project rather than making your self feel better by hating on others.

#15300 documents the evolution from the conyard return into the chrono-vortex. In amongst the vitriol were reasonably presented arguments and an alternative. This is how change occurs.

User avatar
netnazgul
Posts: 359
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:32 am
Location: Minsk
Contact:

Re: very advaced tactic multisoul

Post by netnazgul » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:29 pm

pointbreak wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:37 pm
Cough bullshit cough. Probably you like it that way. I've seen games that listened to the bullshit corner of the community for too long. Ever heard of Wurm Online? No? Not surprised. 10 years of "admin pls cater to my needs even if it breaks the game".
Nothing in your post suggests it is not "bullshit corner of the community" itself.

Chrono basepush is powerful, but still requires team coordination, and then the alternatives have some undesirable side-effects and might break the game more than they will fix it.

User avatar
avalach21
Posts: 212
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:01 pm

Re: very advaced tactic multisoul

Post by avalach21 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:19 pm

pointbreak wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:37 pm
No. It makes absolutely no sense from a lore and more importantly game design perspective.
Lol. You came into the thread asking for sources justifying the behavior... I gave you a link to the game's instruction manual with a quote that is surprisingly similar to your self created quote which seemed to be a sarcastic attempt to sound ridiculous. The original games, both Red Alert 1 and 2, allow you to chrono an MCV permanently... and off the top of my head I know there is even an official mission in the game itself where an MCV is chronoed in permanently... so I'd say it's pretty clear from both lore and gameplay perspectives that chronoing an MCV which then deploys and stays permanently is the established norm.
pointbreak wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:37 pm
Not in the mood to reply to the entirety of your mental gymnastics written out to justified a broken game mechanic. Even Starcraft had flying buildings that could be built anywhere, but it didn't have a instant transportable base.
I'm not really seeing how your comments about Starcraft are at all relevant to the topic?? Go ahead and dismiss my logical explanation as "mental gymnastics" if you want.. if you are not in the mood to make a constructive and courteous reply then why bother?
pointbreak wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:37 pm
Cough bullshit cough. Probably you like it that way. I've seen games that listened to the bullshit corner of the community for too long. Ever heard of Wurm Online? No? Not surprised. 10 years of "admin pls cater to my needs even if it breaks the game".
For the record, Sleipnir was one of the strongest advocates for changing the chrono mcv to force it to return. You can follow the discussion if you want. Across all the different discussion channels (Discord, forum, github) it seemed the majority of people did not want to see Chrono MCV be forced to go back. If you really feel passionate about the change, feel free to express your viewpoint in a constructive and respectful manner..
pointbreak wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:37 pm
I'll just stick to NoChrono maps and insta quit everytime someone chronos a base. Even winning like that sucks.
Honestly, it's really not that hard to stop if you are well prepared for it. Without trying to be rude, maybe you just aren't responding properly to it? There are many things you can do to stop a chrono MCV... And of course you are free to exclusively play NoChrono maps and even host your own server with NoChrono maps.
pointbreak wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:37 pm
It could have been made a setting in the options too but I guess the community was against that too, right?
It could be made a setting.. why not open an issue on github with your suggestion? Even if you have the best idea in the world.. it helps to be courteous and respectful to others if you want to see it implemented.

User avatar
hamb
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:57 pm

Re: very advaced tactic multisoul

Post by hamb » Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:08 pm

Someone in this thread is posting under multiple forum accounts.

This is a reminder that this is against forum rules, and action will be taken if it continues.

User avatar
Happy
Posts: 300
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:50 am
Contact:

Re: very advaced tactic multisoul

Post by Happy » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:21 am

If u wan ez win just buold inf and pillbox ez win trust me no need for mcv chrono my freind

GDave
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:42 am

Re: very advaced tactic multisoul

Post by GDave » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:40 pm

Obvious sock puppet was obvious.

pointbreak a.k.a. Horsecock a.k.a. Mbeke
Evidence:
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=20573&p=308168#p308168
https://resource.openra.net/maps/28226/ - check the lua
https://resource.openra.net/maps/uploader/1822/ - 8 uploads, all variations on Ore Gardens

Horsecock/pointbreak only ever plays Ore Gardens. He is often abusive in-game and only ever loses because of “someone else’s fault”. If a game isn’t played how he wants (no chrono MCV!) then he disconnects, ruining the game for the other seven players. “Was that a chrono MCV?!”

I find it very arrogant of Horsecock to attempt to change a game mechanic to suit his monotonous play-style. Chrono MCV adds variety to what is a pretty boring map. It’s fairly easy to counter too, but Horsecock refuses to adjust. I suggest he plays the AI; he may be less petulant then.

If Horsecock didn’t create so much drama around chrono MCV then players like me wouldn’t do it to him at every opportunity.


I was strongly against changing the MCV to returning after a chronoshift+deploy. I had reasoned arguments as to why. I didn’t post them to the PR in the end as others such as WhoCares, avalach and Ganon covered them.

I agree with everything avalach21 said.

Forcing the deployed, chrono-shifted MCV to return would simply raise the skill/experience level required for the tactic to work (WF ready+MCV on hold when almost built).

That PR was a good example of pchote proposing a change, listening to reasoned arguments against it from the community, and then changing his mind. That’s the way to influence the direction of ORA, not to be abusive.

+1 Jur for the 'Allo 'Allo! reference

pointbreak
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:54 am

Re: very advaced tactic multisoul

Post by pointbreak » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:01 pm

GDave wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:40 pm
Obvious sock puppet was obvious.
Using a different name on the forum than ingame isn't sockpuppeting at all. You didn't need to "prove" that I'm Horsecock since it wasn't a secret.

Further, I have a list here of players that I ban for being either laggy or trolls. There's exactly one person on there that I ban for being rude beyond imagination, that's GDave. People who actually play with me instead of shit-talking know that I regularly fight til my base is destroyed. So... your lying is just confusing to me.

I don't care, leave your broken mechanic in if some autistic pleasure commands you to do so. Thank god this stuff is moddable, thank you for that Sleipnir.
GDave wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:40 pm
If Horsecock didn’t create so much drama around chrono MCV then players like me wouldn’t do it to him at every opportunity.
That's just more shit-talking from your side, the only thing I really know you for. Let's not even get into the content here, I think you are a bit too loose with facts for a real discussion. And you can't chrono mcv me at all since 1. I ban you on sight 2. I mostly play nochrono maps. I haven't seen you ingame for weeks and that's really nice. You pretty much stalked me to insult me until I banned you. I don't even know why you care about me at all but your behaviour here illustrates what I mean just perfectly.
Last edited by pointbreak on Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
anjew
Posts: 506
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 4:16 am

Re: very advaced tactic multisoul

Post by anjew » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:14 pm

Did you really post on an alternate account, pretending to have broken english?
That's hilarious

GDave
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:42 am

Re: very advaced tactic multisoul

Post by GDave » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:24 pm

pointbreak wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:01 pm
Using a different name on the forum than ingame isn't sockpuppeting at all. You didn't need to "prove" that I'm Horsecock since it wasn't a secret.
Are you claiming that 'savagafrenchman' wasn't you? :lol:

Locked