Lets discuss Shock Troopers (Red Alert)

[Murto the Ray]

I dont think there has been a pull request - will have to look though.

I was thinking more along the lines of grenadiers/flamers to destroy the derricks than rocket soldiers.

Soviets are specialised due to the expensive nature of their units, its more difficult to get balanced composition without being left alone for quite a while by your opponent. Brute force seems like the way to go but for the price of units it feels like they don't really recoup that cost without good micro.

[Canavusbis]

Anyways, for now nerf shockies. Do we have to make a pull request? I saw no RA unit balance changes in the full playtest changelist.

You're going to need to wait for the next release cycle. We are in a gamma (feature freeze) testing phase, so I'd suggest you make custom maps with the rules until the next PT.

[Matt]

Changing some yaml rule values for balancing reasons isn't really introducing features. Traditionally those are always done last minute, because everyone keeps complaining, but no one feels responsible for actually filing a patch.

[r34ch]

Changing some yaml rule values for balancing reasons isn't really introducing features. Traditionally those are always done last minute, because everyone keeps complaining, but no one feels responsible for actually filing a patch.

You mean a pull request with the balance changes? I thought there was a member of the dev team who dealt with RA balance changes?

[Canavusbis]

Changing some yaml rule values for balancing reasons isn't really introducing features. Traditionally those are always done last minute, because everyone keeps complaining, but no one feels responsible for actually filing a patch.

Adding a balance patch without a playtest is a nice way to require hotfixes

-snip-

You mean a pull request with the balance changes? I thought there was a member of the dev team who dealt with RA balance changes?

Nope. Scott is an ex-developer who occasionally does some work, but it is unlikely he will do it for you.

[r34ch]

Well I went ahead and submitted a pull request
https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/pull/9085

This first PR is basically to address OP shock troopers, buffing a couple units to compensate as well as making the hijacker useful. I picked various members suggestions of stats that were generally agreed by most.

Thoughts behind these changes;
-Shockies become more like support troops rather than front-line troops
-Heavy tanks are (a little) more worthwhile as frontline damage soakers
-Yaks are better against massed infantry (should help ukraine)
-Hijacker is much easier to use


I didn't want to add too much at once so more changes can come in a second PR later. I personally would like to see longbows buffed a little next.

[zinc]

Shock trooper;
-cost increased from $400 to $500
-health reduced to 80 from 100



I'm guessing that those changes will not make much of a difference. The increased price could do I guess but that would depend on how resource rich the map is.

I don't think the health thing will change things when you get overrun by shockies.

I'm just guessing of course and if people have played games with these rule changes and they think they work...

My idea, would be that, if their power was increased by changing their range in the first place, then you could experiment with that and put it back a little bit. Maybe do something where a few pillbox actually have a chance of killing some of them.

[Murto the Ray]

The range is fine as it is; shockies are supposed to be support units rather than front-liners so it makes sense for them to have a decent range.

Small differences make a pretty big impact on gameplay and the buffing of yaks will make a big difference as well vs shocky swarms; no matter what balance it is going to be better than it is at the moment.

[af]

Thanks r34ch for putting the pull request in. I don't care too much about the heavy tank changes but the rest look like big improvements.

[zinc]

The range is fine as it is; shockies are supposed to be support units rather than front-liners so it makes sense for them to have a decent range.

Small differences make a pretty big impact on gameplay and the buffing of yaks will make a big difference as well vs shocky swarms; no matter what balance it is going to be better than it is at the moment.

Helis are better than yaks at dealing with troops and they often are of no help because of course the Russian player will send in (often iron curtained) flak trucks.

[zinc]

Options that I can think of:

(1) Reduce range, or:
(2) Reduce damage done, or:
(3) Take away the ability to target troops

With (3) that would mean the Russia player can't just use shockies and iron curtained flak trucks but would need more of a mix to attack.

[r34ch]

I don't think the health thing will change things when you get overrun by shockies.

I think the hp nerf is needed. 100hp is way too much. Currently they can survive 2 bursts from a hind. With 80hp they can only survive the one.

If they are still OP I would like to see their health reduced further down to 60, which is still higher than most of the infantry in the game. At 80hp they can survive a hit from a pillbox, at 60hp the pillbox kills them in one burst.

Lets see what happens first though. Allies are about to get buildable veteran units with the spys new ability. That will affect the damage and RoF of defending units.

[zinc]

I don't think the health thing will change things when you get overrun by shockies.

I think the hp nerf is needed. 100hp is way too much. Currently they can survive 2 bursts from a hind. With 80hp they can only survive the one.

If they are still OP I would like to see their health reduced further down to 60, which is still higher than most of the infantry in the game. At 80hp they can survive a hit from a pillbox, at 60hp the pillbox kills them in one burst.

OK yeah maybe it will help.

[zinc]

Allies are about to get buildable veteran units with the spys new ability.

Can someone explain?

[hotze]

Allies are about to get buildable veteran units with the spys new ability.

Can someone explain?

You have to infiltrate an enemy's or teammate's production facilities.
Then you can build veteran units.