The Ref Sell change.

Can someone tell me who wanted to change the ref sell. 300 to 150 with less infantry.

Discussion about the game and its default mods.
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BigBadBaIn
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Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:37 pm

The Ref Sell change.

Post by BigBadBaIn » Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:18 am

Why have we made the ref sells less viable, it was never abused and it was never a great strat to go for, double ref has much better scaling if you look into the numbers, I can produce a lot of infantry much faster with a double ref opener into a pp, then a double ref opener into a wf sell, I don't understand why this was changed from 300 sell to 150, with less infantry, no one complained as far as I saw, and all this is doing is making the game more streamlined by doing this, which just makes for less strategy. I've not heard anyone tell me why this was a big issues so fill free to point out to me why this change was made.

I'M ALL FUCKING EARS!

xD

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netnazgul
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Re: The Ref Sell change.

Post by netnazgul » Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:16 am

Refinery sell cost was reduced, because producing refinery gives you refinery and an ore truck, but with the sell giving back full 50% of its cost it meant you just have an ore truck for free. This skews the lategame where you use free building production queue to build up economy as it's both cheaper and faster to produce ore trucks that way.

Impact on starting ref-sell build order of this change is minimal cause its main point wasn't to get additional funds by selling, but to get spare power, skip second power plant and build war factory faster. The build order proved to be inferior anyway due to several reasons:
  • - most "modern" maps have at least 3 mines with at least 2 combined on a single patch, where you'd anyway want to have 2 refineries, so selling one demands building additional ref later; it may have worked somewhat on maps like Behind the Veil where you could sell second ref and then build third on a second patch, covering the two
  • - selling second ref leaves you on 1-2 refs for a lot of starting time, which shortens the maximum money count you can float, and oversaturates the storage most of the time, losing those 8 seconds you've won with skipping a power plant; on the other hand you just quickly get broke when you try to prevent that and build additional infantry
  • - 1ref-wf is still faster in terms of getting economy/expansion, and 2ref-wf is still better early aggression-wise; you'd lose advantage to both against a player of equal skill

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Smitty
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Re: The Ref Sell change.

Post by Smitty » Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:25 pm


Mo
Posts: 115
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:40 pm

Re: The Ref Sell change.

Post by Mo » Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:39 am

netnazgul wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:16 am
Refinery sell cost was reduced, because producing refinery gives you refinery and an ore truck, but with the sell giving back full 50% of its cost it meant you just have an ore truck for free. This skews the lategame where you use free building production queue to build up economy as it's both cheaper and faster to produce ore trucks that way.

Impact on starting ref-sell build order of this change is minimal cause its main point wasn't to get additional funds by selling, but to get spare power, skip second power plant and build war factory faster. The build order proved to be inferior anyway due to several reasons:
  • - most "modern" maps have at least 3 mines with at least 2 combined on a single patch, where you'd anyway want to have 2 refineries, so selling one demands building additional ref later; it may have worked somewhat on maps like Behind the Veil where you could sell second ref and then build third on a second patch, covering the two
  • - selling second ref leaves you on 1-2 refs for a lot of starting time, which shortens the maximum money count you can float, and oversaturates the storage most of the time, losing those 8 seconds you've won with skipping a power plant; on the other hand you just quickly get broke when you try to prevent that and build additional infantry
  • - 1ref-wf is still faster in terms of getting economy/expansion, and 2ref-wf is still better early aggression-wise; you'd lose advantage to both against a player of equal skill
The fix to the 2nd point would be to simultaneously build a silo ;)

camundahl
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Re: The Ref Sell change.

Post by camundahl » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:09 am

Makes sense

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