Thoughts from a player playing Red Alert for a couple of months
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:21 pm
Hello! I'm known as Que Boi de Rasa, aka "The Strategic Genius" and I'm a well respected member of this community. I started playing some months ago and here are some thoughts after playing this game so far. These are targeted at the developers (as I saw the update of you asking for the communities thoughts on where Red Alert should go).
Balance related things
Here are some of the things I think are balance related issues. I am mainly a 3v3 and 4v4 player, which probably might give a different perspective on some things.
Allied AA-turrets
I think that AA-turrets are way too powerful. There not a single thing I hate more to play against.
Allied AA-turrets are much stronger than Soviet SAM-sites. I have no idea why. I remember it being the opposite in the original C&C Red Alert games (there Allied AA was near useless because it had very limited range).
It is my opinion that it is widely known that allied AA is much stronger. In team games it is common for Soviet teammates to request that Allied teammates build AA-turrets for them, because of this.
AA-turrets have too long range
(The opposite of the original games, where SAM-site used to have longer range). See this picture on how big the difference is (blue circle is range of AA-turret, red circle is range of SAM-site).
This is problematic because a player controlling aircraft rarely ever get the chance to move away after finding an enemy turrets. Usually it is over the moment the turret is even spotted. Aircraft are the most expensive and fragile units in the game, so there is nothing more frustrating than spotting a turret, knowing it is already too late.
Of course you can still stay out of the range. But this leads to very stale games, where a cautious player would never attack near the allied enemies bases with aircraft, it is simply too risky. This also makes base pushes more problematic in team games. Because you cannot use aircraft to snipe of enemy artillery when an AA-turret is near.
AA-turrets do damage immediately
Another related problem is the fact that AA-turrets don't shoot projectiles. So you cannot run away from their fire. This adds to the problem of their large range, because usually it will start firing immediately after it has been spotted.
SAM-sites are much more interesting because a player can micro their aircraft away from the missiles if they are good enough.
I have a suggestion on a nice way to attempt fix this. Make the AA-turret have a slower turret rotation speed. So the turret will need to spend some time to target incoming aircraft. The rotation speed need to be big enough so it can still track down MIG:s coming at a reasonably wide angle.
AA-turrets do more damage
I tested this in single player by manually targeting Chinooks. I would say it takes SAM-sites about 50% longer to kill a Chinook than it takes a allied AA-turret.
A very frustrating moment which has happened to me is that I see and exposed enemy nuke silo, the player has no AA guarding it in their base. I have 8 MIG:s, I attack the silo. But then one of the Allied players on the enemy team drops down an AA-turret, killing all 8 MIG:s valued at 16 000 credits, for one turret costing 800 credits. I learned after this that one should never attack enemy bases with aircraft, unless you are completely sure they can't build AA-turrets. I think this is stupid and leads to more boring games.
Suggestions
- Make the AA-turret have a slower turret rotation speed. So the turret will need to spend some time to target incoming aircraft. The rotation speed need to be big enough so it can still track down MIG:s coming at a reasonably wide angle.
- Rebalance the range/damage output of the turrets
Advanced Chrono shift on naval maps
I think Advanced Chronoshift is a bit too strong on some naval maps (like Bombardment islands).
I think Advanced Chronoshere is a bit too strong on large 3v3 or 4v4 naval maps. A regular chronoshift will transport five units which can be defended by leaving some units or towers to guard your base. The advanced chronoshift will not chrono ten, eleven, twelve but THIRTEEN units anywhere on the map.
This isn't as big of problem on "land" maps than it is on naval maps, because on land maps you can usually avoid having units teleported to your base by pressuring their front. An example map where I think it is overpowered to play against is Bombardment islands.
I have no concrete suggestions on how to solve this. Maybe increase the cool down?
Chrono MCV
I know this is a widely debated problem. First of all I don't think it makes any sense. You cannot chrono demo trucks, they will explode immediately (probably killing your own or your team mates units when you attempt it for the first time).
I know you can defend against this by filling your base with buildings scattered such that there is no room for an MCV to deploy. But a combo which is quite common in team games is where you a base nuke first, and then chrono your own base there and claim it as your own.
Suggestions
I have three different suggestions on how to solve this:
1. Don't allow enemies to chrono MCV:s (should be simple)
2. Make deployed MCVs teleport back as undeployed MCV
This gives the attacking player the opportunity to build a few structures in the enemy base, but when chrono runs out, they loose the ability to build more structures.
3. Make the deployed conyard teleport back
If anything is blocking its way when it comes back, those things will be crushed. This is as comparable to having your demo truck explode next to your army when you try to chrono it.
Naval gameplay
I think that there is a problem with naval warfare. Usually the player who gets naval units first will easily be able to camp the enemies water, and kill any naval structures as they are built. I don't know how to solve this. But I think that it makes naval gameplay a lot less dynamic and more boring.
Artillery
I think this unit is boring. It is very immobile, which makes it hard to micro. It also fire a lot of projectiles which fly very fast, which makes dodging projectiles (like you can with V2 Rockets) not worth it.
This unit is also widely used in a 3v3 and 4v4 base pushing tactics on maps cramped maps like Ore Gardens. Where the attacking players will push by building cheap structures combined with AA-turrets, AT-turrets/Tesla coils and artillery. The AA-turrets will shut down any aircraft trying to snipe the artilleries, while the artilleries will destroy enemy structures, base defenses, counter artillery and infantry. This a very boring but effective tactic.
I suggest making the artillery behave more like the V2 (this was originally suggested by someone else I played with). This means that the artillery will be more maneuverable, with slower firing rate (so it is worth dodging projectiles) and slower projectile speed (so it is easier to dodge projectiles).
GPS
I suggest that the GPS work differently. In its current state it is very strong, as it will allow you to pick of enemy artillery without having vision of them. It also allows you to see where enemies are planning to attack. All in all GPS is very strong, usually to the point that a team without Allied players in 3v3 or 4v4 will be at a big disadvantage late-game, because the enemy will always have a "greater picture" about what is happening on the battle field when GPS is online.
I propose changing the GPS so it works like a spy plane, but on the whole map at regular intervals. So when activated, the GPS will reveal the entire map for like 30 seconds. Then the player needs to wait a couple of minutes until they can use it again.
The Soviet Hind thing
I will just say that I think it is good gameplay-wise that the hind belongs to the Allies. The Soviets also have the Yak, but otherwise the Allied would have nothing comparable.
One thing that would be nice though would be to implement cargo planes, which are the Soviet equivalent to Chinooks, which can transport units by air. They need to get loaded on the airports, and will drop off units with parachutes mid air. This would solve the balance problems where on some maps, there are areas which are not accessible by Soviet players.
Closing thoughts
I hope that you have taken your time to read this, and consider the problems and suggestions listed here. All in all I want to thank you for this amazing game! Despite these things which I consider problems, I think it is a great game which I will continue to play. But I think it would be even better if the solutions above get implemented.
Balance related things
Here are some of the things I think are balance related issues. I am mainly a 3v3 and 4v4 player, which probably might give a different perspective on some things.
Allied AA-turrets
I think that AA-turrets are way too powerful. There not a single thing I hate more to play against.
Allied AA-turrets are much stronger than Soviet SAM-sites. I have no idea why. I remember it being the opposite in the original C&C Red Alert games (there Allied AA was near useless because it had very limited range).
It is my opinion that it is widely known that allied AA is much stronger. In team games it is common for Soviet teammates to request that Allied teammates build AA-turrets for them, because of this.
AA-turrets have too long range
(The opposite of the original games, where SAM-site used to have longer range). See this picture on how big the difference is (blue circle is range of AA-turret, red circle is range of SAM-site).
This is problematic because a player controlling aircraft rarely ever get the chance to move away after finding an enemy turrets. Usually it is over the moment the turret is even spotted. Aircraft are the most expensive and fragile units in the game, so there is nothing more frustrating than spotting a turret, knowing it is already too late.
Of course you can still stay out of the range. But this leads to very stale games, where a cautious player would never attack near the allied enemies bases with aircraft, it is simply too risky. This also makes base pushes more problematic in team games. Because you cannot use aircraft to snipe of enemy artillery when an AA-turret is near.
AA-turrets do damage immediately
Another related problem is the fact that AA-turrets don't shoot projectiles. So you cannot run away from their fire. This adds to the problem of their large range, because usually it will start firing immediately after it has been spotted.
SAM-sites are much more interesting because a player can micro their aircraft away from the missiles if they are good enough.
I have a suggestion on a nice way to attempt fix this. Make the AA-turret have a slower turret rotation speed. So the turret will need to spend some time to target incoming aircraft. The rotation speed need to be big enough so it can still track down MIG:s coming at a reasonably wide angle.
AA-turrets do more damage
I tested this in single player by manually targeting Chinooks. I would say it takes SAM-sites about 50% longer to kill a Chinook than it takes a allied AA-turret.
A very frustrating moment which has happened to me is that I see and exposed enemy nuke silo, the player has no AA guarding it in their base. I have 8 MIG:s, I attack the silo. But then one of the Allied players on the enemy team drops down an AA-turret, killing all 8 MIG:s valued at 16 000 credits, for one turret costing 800 credits. I learned after this that one should never attack enemy bases with aircraft, unless you are completely sure they can't build AA-turrets. I think this is stupid and leads to more boring games.
Suggestions
- Make the AA-turret have a slower turret rotation speed. So the turret will need to spend some time to target incoming aircraft. The rotation speed need to be big enough so it can still track down MIG:s coming at a reasonably wide angle.
- Rebalance the range/damage output of the turrets
Advanced Chrono shift on naval maps
I think Advanced Chronoshift is a bit too strong on some naval maps (like Bombardment islands).
I think Advanced Chronoshere is a bit too strong on large 3v3 or 4v4 naval maps. A regular chronoshift will transport five units which can be defended by leaving some units or towers to guard your base. The advanced chronoshift will not chrono ten, eleven, twelve but THIRTEEN units anywhere on the map.
This isn't as big of problem on "land" maps than it is on naval maps, because on land maps you can usually avoid having units teleported to your base by pressuring their front. An example map where I think it is overpowered to play against is Bombardment islands.
I have no concrete suggestions on how to solve this. Maybe increase the cool down?
Chrono MCV
I know this is a widely debated problem. First of all I don't think it makes any sense. You cannot chrono demo trucks, they will explode immediately (probably killing your own or your team mates units when you attempt it for the first time).
I know you can defend against this by filling your base with buildings scattered such that there is no room for an MCV to deploy. But a combo which is quite common in team games is where you a base nuke first, and then chrono your own base there and claim it as your own.
Suggestions
I have three different suggestions on how to solve this:
1. Don't allow enemies to chrono MCV:s (should be simple)
2. Make deployed MCVs teleport back as undeployed MCV
This gives the attacking player the opportunity to build a few structures in the enemy base, but when chrono runs out, they loose the ability to build more structures.
3. Make the deployed conyard teleport back
If anything is blocking its way when it comes back, those things will be crushed. This is as comparable to having your demo truck explode next to your army when you try to chrono it.
Naval gameplay
I think that there is a problem with naval warfare. Usually the player who gets naval units first will easily be able to camp the enemies water, and kill any naval structures as they are built. I don't know how to solve this. But I think that it makes naval gameplay a lot less dynamic and more boring.
Artillery
I think this unit is boring. It is very immobile, which makes it hard to micro. It also fire a lot of projectiles which fly very fast, which makes dodging projectiles (like you can with V2 Rockets) not worth it.
This unit is also widely used in a 3v3 and 4v4 base pushing tactics on maps cramped maps like Ore Gardens. Where the attacking players will push by building cheap structures combined with AA-turrets, AT-turrets/Tesla coils and artillery. The AA-turrets will shut down any aircraft trying to snipe the artilleries, while the artilleries will destroy enemy structures, base defenses, counter artillery and infantry. This a very boring but effective tactic.
I suggest making the artillery behave more like the V2 (this was originally suggested by someone else I played with). This means that the artillery will be more maneuverable, with slower firing rate (so it is worth dodging projectiles) and slower projectile speed (so it is easier to dodge projectiles).
GPS
I suggest that the GPS work differently. In its current state it is very strong, as it will allow you to pick of enemy artillery without having vision of them. It also allows you to see where enemies are planning to attack. All in all GPS is very strong, usually to the point that a team without Allied players in 3v3 or 4v4 will be at a big disadvantage late-game, because the enemy will always have a "greater picture" about what is happening on the battle field when GPS is online.
I propose changing the GPS so it works like a spy plane, but on the whole map at regular intervals. So when activated, the GPS will reveal the entire map for like 30 seconds. Then the player needs to wait a couple of minutes until they can use it again.
The Soviet Hind thing
I will just say that I think it is good gameplay-wise that the hind belongs to the Allies. The Soviets also have the Yak, but otherwise the Allied would have nothing comparable.
One thing that would be nice though would be to implement cargo planes, which are the Soviet equivalent to Chinooks, which can transport units by air. They need to get loaded on the airports, and will drop off units with parachutes mid air. This would solve the balance problems where on some maps, there are areas which are not accessible by Soviet players.
Closing thoughts
I hope that you have taken your time to read this, and consider the problems and suggestions listed here. All in all I want to thank you for this amazing game! Despite these things which I consider problems, I think it is a great game which I will continue to play. But I think it would be even better if the solutions above get implemented.