Let's talk about AA Guns

and why they're overpowered

Discussion about the game and its default mods.
CatGirls420
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Let's talk about AA Guns

Post by CatGirls420 » Wed May 09, 2018 8:02 pm

Let's get this out of the way first: yes, I know about Allies not having mobile AA, about air units being great snipers, ect ect yadda yadda all that stuff.

Now, onto the topic at hand.

AA Guns. Overpowered? Some say no. Most say yes. Is it just a bunch of noobs saying yes, or is it really over powered? Let's find out.

AA Gun cost: 900 + 300 (or 150 since it uses half of a power plants power) = 1200 (or 1050)

Let's start with Yaks, everybody's favorite.

Do you know many Yaks a well placed AA Gun will kill? 10 or more.
Let's go with 10, to help the doubters feel a little better.

10x1350 = 13,500 (total cost of 10 yaks)

Wait a minute, does something seem silly to you? Yeah, me too. That's an extremely heavy cost to incur for a static defense that only costs about 1100 credits.

13,500..........1100..........yeah, something is wrong here.

Something I heard quite a bit, is that air units are great snipers and with without the default AA they would be OP. Sov's is fine because they have mobile AA and Sam Sites.
(Side note: why were flaks even given to soviets, instead of just buffing the sam site?)

That mobile AA, the Flak truck, is a huge part of the problem, because that is used as reasoning for the insanely overpowered AA Guns.

Remember, 1 AA Gun kills at least 10 yaks.

How many can a flak kill before dying? One, maybe two, if you're lucky, or more, if you're against someone who doesn't know what they're doing.

10..........1 or 2..........yeah, something's not right again.

Sure, they chase things around, but really only catch up to helis, if nothing is in their way. If there's a cliff, you might as well turn around and head back because you aren't catching whatever air unit you were chasing. Flak mobility rendered useless in that instance.

A smart player will plan attacks near or close to cliffs, water, whatever, so if a Flak or more comes along, the player can make a quick and safe escape. Or, if the player has enough air units, those few flaks won't do anything but die. For example, 10 yaks.

Another argument is "but it costs 10 more power than a SAM Site". Wait, so that means AA Guns should kill 60-80% more than Sams do? No.

Onto the next major argument: Air units are insane snipers.

Butare they really? Well, kind of.

However, if you're getting sniped by air units, that means you didn't scout, and screwed yourself. Scouting would've revealed the enemy has air units. Ok, AA Gun. Let's see how many the enemy has........hmmm, yeah I'll make a couple more because why not.

AA Guns, a single one, can deny an entire area from air units.

Ok so "wait cg, nerfing the AA Gun will make air units even more OP!"

Sorry, no, you're just looking for an easy cop out to save your rear end from being sniped. It should take 2-3 AA Guns to kill 10 Yaks.

I would've said more were needed, but I factored in the fact that air units are great snipers.

"Okay but the vision is reduced to 6 cells, 4 below its fire range" yeah okay, that's one way to balance it, but it's ineffective. Especially if the enemy has gaps, aa's inside base, or outside of base with units to increase sight range, and then we're back at square one, with AA Guns Slaughtering hordes of air units.

People want an easy cop out to survive air attacks. It's a strategy game, it's not supposed to be easy. I'm sure there's other reasons, like, maybe people are lazy and don't want to be arsed with making a bunch of AA Guns.

But don't worry! Here's a protip.

ProTip: you can scout, and only build anti air if theres air unit, then, based on the amount, make enough aa guns to protect yourself.

So, as good of snipers as they are, the tradeoff is just simply not balanced.

Ok, so you're being careful, to avoid any AA Guns, you spot an opening, and go for it. The enemy either catches you or happens to be placing on down right as you get to his base, annnnnnnnd there goes your 10 yaks again. might kill something if you're lucky.

And how much loss do Yaks cause the enemy? Well, if the enemy has aa guns, not much.You might kill one or two things, maybe an mcv? Ok that's 2,500 credits. Still doesnt equate. (by equate, I mdon't mean 1 AA Gun killing 1 yak, I'm talking about the worth, the gains, and the losses).

So okay, new scenario, your 10 yaks are on standby, you scout the enemies base, WOW NO AA, SWEET, GIT REKT, but little do you know, he's about to drop an AA Gun. So you send your Yaks, maybe kill a powerplant, a war factory and damage an MCV, because by the time you kill that Adv. PP, he has place the AA Gun and all of your Yaks almost instantly.

So you just incurred a 13,500 credit loss, whereas the enemy only suffered a 2500 credit loss, MAYBE low power.

That's not balanced.

Ok so, let's say the enemy has no AA, and doesnt build one in time to stop your attack. So all 10 Yaks pull off a successful attack.....but only kill maybe, idk, for example, an MCV, a service depot, a couple power plants. Then you have to resupply ammo back at the field.

Well, now Craig IjustGot Cucked, is going to make a bunch of AA guns, and wait for you to suicide into his base, doing essentially nothing.

"but wait, he lost an MCV AND the service depot! He cant make mcv's now."

If you let the enemy kill your MCV and service depot with air units before you pop your first mcv out, you really should consider practice some more.

Don't even get me started the losses you suffer with hinds, longbows, and migs. Since I can't remember hind and longbow losses to 1 aa gun, I'll mention migs vs 1 aa gun.

1 aa gun can kill 16,000-20,000 or more credits worth of migs.

I mean how can you look at these numbers and say it's balanced lol (no, I'm not insulting you, everyone working on OpenRA is doing a great job)

There was more I wanted to talk about, and more points I wanted to make, but I'm tired, and I can't remember right now.

Feel free to disagree with me, but at least explain why, in a constructive way. That means don't be an asshole. Please follow the forum and community rules. Saying stuff like "you have no idea what you're doing" or "dude you suck" doesn't help anyone or anything. Subtle insults don't either.

Thank you. I hope to hear back from some people soon.

CatGirls420
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Post by CatGirls420 » Thu May 10, 2018 3:39 am

I'm so sorry, I forgot to mention how I ended up balancing this.

.

.

.

.


When they decided to add the flak, which was never in RA, it was the stake that pierced the heart of the game, and them nerfing SAM Sites was the extra push on the stake to drive it in completely and get in there real good.

The way I balanced all of this, was allowing AA Guns to see as far as they can shoot. I'll have to double check, but I reduced the damage of AA Guns by, 25-33%, maybe? I reduced how fast it shoots by a good amount, gave it splash damage, and made the turn rate4-5 times slower, which actually isn't that slow.

Keep in mind, my air units are also buffed, to be more effective on the field and against navy as well.

Through tests with AA Gun and air units with default values, I think I had to reduce the damage by 40-50%, IIRC.

So, with the AA nerf turning out to be great, I buffed the SAM Site dmg and range a bit to be pretty even with the AA Gun. It shoots four rockets, but I split the damage by4, so it's really just aesthetic thing, shooting 4 rockets. Although, it does add some variable to it. 1 to all 4 missiles can either hit or miss.

I increased the health of the AA Gun and SAM Site so it could survive well enough to do significant damage while being attacked by air units, or, anything really.

The Flak truck was tweaked. I took some dmg vs air, and gave it to dmg vs infantry, increased it's range by 0.5-1 cell, and sight range by 2 cells. A slight move speed increase as well, to make it a better scout unit and worthwhile anti infantry for soviets, and supplementary AA.

Destroyers AA Range went up to 12 cells, to compensate for AA where allies needed it, but couldnt get aa there, or couldnt get it there in time.

The missile sub aa was buffed greatly, range to 14 cells, shoots faster, IIRC slight damage increase? To make up for what soviets lacked in terms of naval aa.

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Wippie
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Post by Wippie » Thu May 10, 2018 10:11 pm

You want constructive answers but fail to put up a constructive post.

Skipping all assumptions and chit chat and theres nothing left to talk about imo.

CatGirls420
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Post by CatGirls420 » Fri May 11, 2018 7:33 pm

Could you please explain what you mean? Because I don't see that.

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ThunderStruck115
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Re: Let's talk about AA Guns

Post by ThunderStruck115 » Mon May 28, 2018 1:43 am

I kind of agree here.

When you compare the AA gun to the SAM site, the allies have a better static defense as far as AA.

I prefer to play as the soviets. I often play against my brother, who prefers the allies. Sometimes, I would get 6 or 7 yaks, then I would go for a flying raid on his tech center or his war factory. As soon as I sent my Yaks in, he plops down an AA gun, and All 7 Yaks go down, so I get more damage done with the kamikaze yak crashes than with their actual weapon.

Meanwhile, the Soviet SAM site isn't nearly as good, since 3 out of 5 air units in the game can easily dodge the missiles with good Micro. Yeah, the SAM is great against those annoying ass hinds as well as the chinook (But who even uses them in RA? Nobody? I thought so.), but unlike the AA gun, if your opponent rushed 7 hinds and you put down a SAM, it would only take out 3 of the 7 hinds in a hind rush rather than all 7 yaks. In addition, Yaks and Longbows can escape the missiles if you micro them at least half decently, whereas MIGs just outrun them completely, making the SAM sites act more as a deterrence against aircraft than an actual defense, unless your opponent is a com"plete dumbass.

BuT tHe AlLiEs HaVe No AnTi AiR uNiTs!" The Allies have the Longbow, shut up. I will admit it seems unrealistic that a helicopter has AA capabilities rather than a fighter plane (MIG), but balance wise, it works out well. In addition, both sides have ROCKET SOLDIERS.

Also, Flak trucks aren't that good on their own. In a 1v1 battle against a Hind, the hind will win, but they're easy to spam, and can be a formidable force when you have a group of 5-6 flak trucks. They might not be as mobile as the longbow, but they don't have to go back to reload like the longbow.

But in terms of AA, the Allies have the Longbow and the Destroyer, the soviets have the flak truck and the missile sub (and the mammoth tank, but the turn rate is abysmal). Both sides have Rocket Soldiers. I will agree the AA Static defense is largely skewed towards the allies, but the mobile AA is pretty balanced.

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Happy
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Re: Let's talk about AA Guns

Post by Happy » Mon May 28, 2018 11:09 am

ThunderStruck115 wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 1:43 am
BuT tHe AlLiEs HaVe No AnTi AiR uNiTs!" The Allies have the Longbow, shut up.
Tier 3, expensive, air units that come out at the very end of a game. Just because allies mobile AA exists doesn't mean it's worthwhile.
ThunderStruck115 wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 1:43 am
both sides have ROCKET SOLDIERS.
Rockets are notoriously buggy with combating air units currently which is a known issue.
ThunderStruck115 wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 1:43 am
But in terms of AA, the Allies have the Longbow and the Destroyer, the soviets have the flak truck and the missile sub (and the mammoth tank, but the turn rate is abysmal). Both sides have Rocket Soldiers. I will agree the AA Static defence is largely skewed towards the allies, but the mobile AA is pretty balanced.
Allies have the longbow. Expensive, tier 3 unit that is not used often due to it appearing in the late game past minute 12 and that is if players can afford them. Destroyers, not all maps have sea and not all land can be covered when they do have sea. The flak truck is ridiculously good for it's job. You said yourself. It's tier 1, spammable and can completely deny air vs mobile armies. The missile sub is not worth talking about. Rocket soldiers are buggy vs air and aren't worth relying on. Static AA has to be skewed towards allies because of the power of the flak truck for soviets. I however think this way of balancing is horrible and allies need a tier 1/2 spammable mobile AA if there is going to be nerfs to the AA gun.

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ThunderStruck115
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Re: Let's talk about AA Guns

Post by ThunderStruck115 » Wed May 30, 2018 8:52 pm

Happy wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 11:09 am


Allies have the longbow. Expensive, tier 3 unit that is not used often due to it appearing in the late game past minute 12 and that is if players can afford them.
Do you even play against Allies that much? Every single time, that damn thing has plagued me and my Yaks, as well as my V2's.

Though I suppose you have a point that the Allies need a tier 1/2 unit that counters air.

Eagle XI
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Re: Let's talk about AA Guns

Post by Eagle XI » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:11 am

AA gun needs some scatter mechanic. Not all shots to land precise on the craft.

camundahl
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Re: Let's talk about AA Guns

Post by camundahl » Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:16 am

I agree on decreased AA accuracy and the SAM site should have as much or more range than the AA gun.

NerevarII
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Re: Let's talk about AA Guns

Post by NerevarII » Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:48 pm

My CG420 Maps remedy this perfectly. France was given a tier 2 mobile aa, since it's a bit better than the flak truck (hence the tier 2), and while England and Germany don't have tier 1 or tier 2 mobile aa, they are balanced in other ways. But that's irrelevent, because the France mobile AA could be given to all Allied factions.

AA Guns and SAM Sites, well, air vs ground and ground vs air as well, have been remedied perfectly.

Focusing on aa guns and sam sites, aa guns have been nerfed substantially, however, they now have a large aoe, or spread damage, and in large numbers, it adds up.

Sam sites are stronger, and shoot 4 missiles (for aesthetics, damage divided by 4), and with good micro, can be dodged, either some or all.

I mean, there's more than enough games played and enough feedback to support, and if any servers log the chat, the logs will what I claim.

- - - -

I do not agree with total deniability with anti-air, or anything, really. Air units need more use, and by allowing them that, it offers much more variety and dynamics to gameplay. So you see an enemy force....you have a bunch of whatever air units, sweet, time to go destroy that force....oh no! Flaks! Boom, air units become useless against that force. There should be an even trade off and allow the air units to at least accomplish something significant. The flaks, or whatever aa you have, should prevent a total loss by air units, or decrease the amount of loss you will suffer.

Again, all the countless matches played on my maps have proven this.

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Happy
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Re: Let's talk about AA Guns

Post by Happy » Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:59 pm

NerevarII wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:48 pm
Again, all the countless matches played on my maps have proven this.
Can you upload these games as a file please? I'm sure people want to view and make a judgement. Would be helpful for Smitty.

NerevarII
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Re: Let's talk about AA Guns

Post by NerevarII » Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:50 am

I apologize, but I simply cannot/will not take the time to do that, as it would require many hours, for many days, to acquire all of that. What I can/will do, is try and remember from this point forward, to rename future replays with some form of marker, and collect those. Also, you've been in a few matches where you've seen this stuff happen, unless it was someone smurfing you. So you should already know :P :lol:

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Happy
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Re: Let's talk about AA Guns

Post by Happy » Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:09 pm

NerevarII wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:50 am
I apologize, but I simply cannot/will not take the time to do that, as it would require many hours, for many days, to acquire all of that. What I can/will do, is try and remember from this point forward, to rename future replays with some form of marker, and collect those. Also, you've been in a few matches where you've seen this stuff happen, unless it was someone smurfing you. So you should already know :P :lol:
So minus the bullshit what you're saying is you have no evidence to back any of your rhetoric up, all the "great feedback" etc that you apparently have but having been collecting. But now because I've pulled you up on it you are now going to collect it. Oh and what I saw was a stupidly powerfull nuke. Cruisers that shot across the map and destroyers with the range of artillery. And to balance this ridiculous navy buff you made a... anti navy turret.

Re reading this post I totally agree with Wippie.
Wippie wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 10:11 pm
You want constructive answers but fail to put up a constructive post.

Skipping all assumptions and chit chat and theres nothing left to talk about imo.
So lets dissect this!
CatGirls420 wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 8:02 pm
Let's get this out of the way first: yes, I know about Allies not having mobile AA, about air units being great snipers, ect ect yadda yadda all that stuff.
No you dont.
CatGirls420 wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 8:02 pm
AA Guns. Overpowered? Some say no. Most say yes. Is it just a bunch of noobs saying yes, or is it really over powered? Let's find out.
Yes they're overpowered. They have to be because there is no worthwhile mobile anti air for the first 10 minutes of the game for allies, unless you want to rush Longbows and lose of course. Now I do agree they're a bit too amazing and adjusting but they need to be powerful. And don't even bother going "ughh rocket soldiers" (the appalling unit bugs etc made sure rockets are useless vs air) or "ughh destroyers" (not all maps have water and water that reaches battlefields).
CatGirls420 wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 8:02 pm
Do you know many Yaks a well placed AA Gun will kill? 10 or more.
Let's go with 10, to help the doubters feel a little better.

10x1350 = 13,500 (total cost of 10 yaks)

Wait a minute, does something seem silly to you? Yeah, me too. That's an extremely heavy cost to incur for a static defense that only costs about 1100 credits.

13,500..........1100..........yeah, something is wrong here.
They can kill 100 if you are the commander of the yaks :\ Where in the barn in Bethlehem did you generate that value, did the lettuce come to life again and bestow that knowledge onto you after injecting some bath salts? Say if these are your yaks, you are bad enough to lose a flock of 100 to a single aa gun, that is 100x1350 = 135,000 (cost of 100 yaks). Damn that's a lot of losses to 1100 credit static defence.
CatGirls420 wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 8:02 pm
Something I heard quite a bit, is that air units are great snipers
Only yaks. Hinds are crowd control. That's beginner level RA knowledge come on man :D You can use either for both but hinds are the best at clearing infantry because they're stationary and don't burst like yaks. Yaks are snipers because they're fast and can kill multiple things in a burst.
CatGirls420 wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 8:02 pm
That mobile AA, the Flak truck, is a huge part of the problem, because that is used as reasoning for the insanely overpowered AA Guns.
No it's because Allies don't have a flak truck, there's no issue with the flak truck. :|
CatGirls420 wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 8:02 pm
Remember, 1 AA Gun kills at least 10 yaks.
:? 1 AA gun can kill at least 0 yaks or 100 if you're in charge of the yaks remember. I still have no idea how you got that value. Where you in a private server flying yaks around an AA gun? :D
CatGirls420 wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 8:02 pm
How many can a flak kill before dying? One, maybe two, if you're lucky, or more, if you're against someone who doesn't know what they're doing.
someone who knows what they're doing (not you) would put the flaks into groups and catch the air units unaware... surely you must have seen numerous casts of this. I'll link some with time stamps since you obviously need to do your homework.
https://youtu.be/tFbLzQf8Tds?t=18m32s
https://youtu.be/SMzpr5qzPas
CatGirls420 wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 8:02 pm
Sure, they chase things around, but really only catch up to helis, if nothing is in their way. If there's a cliff, you might as well turn around and head back because you aren't catching whatever air unit you were chasing. Flak mobility rendered useless in that instance.
Flak trucks are faster than hinds. Flak trucks are also a deterrent. Air units will not attack into Flak trucks. Your infantry blob will not get shredded during an attack by hinds. The only way an Allied player can assure this is by bringing an MCV front line and place and AA gun, now if you were a smart player you would think like this. They're the pikes to the cavalry. Their strength is not in routing the hinds. Do the pikes go charging the cavalry?
CatGirls420 wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 8:02 pm
A smart player will
If you are not a smart player you shouldn't use the terms "a smart player will" because you are neither smart nor competent and have no idea about whats going on in the mind of a smart player or his/her strategy.
CatGirls420 wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 8:02 pm
Another argument is "but it costs 10 more power than a SAM Site". Wait, so that means AA Guns should kill 60-80% more than Sams do? No.
Never heard this argument... ever. Did you invent this one like how you invented the delusion me and Submarine are paedophiles :D
CatGirls420 wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 8:02 pm
Onto the next major argument: Air units are insane snipers.
Yes they are. Even the hind can do a pretty good job but the yak takes home the bacon. They break the bank of any player. The one unit type that cannot be spammed unless specifically planning to do.
CatGirls420 wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 8:02 pm
Butare they really? Well, kind of.
Yes they are. No doubts.
CatGirls420 wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 8:02 pm
However, if you're getting sniped by air units, that means you didn't scout, and screwed yourself. Scouting would've revealed the enemy has air units. Ok, AA Gun. Let's see how many the enemy has........hmmm, yeah I'll make a couple more because why not.
You lost to a silo. A single silo. Whats the smart player explanation for that? The only thing I can think of is that you're terrible and should stick to making fun mod maps or maps like Afrijew than actual serious balance which you have no idea about. Why didn't you scout his lone silo??
CatGirls420 wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 8:02 pm
AA Guns, a single one, can deny an entire area from air units.
Tesla coils, a single one, can deny an enemy ore to harvest over inaccessible cliffs. That sounds worse than air units being denied can we nerf tesla coils too?? That's its job, if it couldn't deny an area from air units it's doing a pretty bad job isn't it you numpty. Sam sites deny an area from air units, so does mobile flak, what is your point?
CatGirls420 wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 8:02 pm
Ok so "wait cg, nerfing the AA Gun will make air units even more OP!"
No they wont. It means it's more likely someone can snipe stuff in your bases. Air units will mostly be used on the battlefield. Where there are no aa guns unless an Allied commander wants to ruin the day. This is all basic RA cat girls you should go back to RA school.
CatGirls420 wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 8:02 pm
then we're back at square one, with AA Guns Slaughtering hordes of air units.
I know it must be hard being awful at RA, but how about you resist the urge to suicide your yak flock into AA guns?
CatGirls420 wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 8:02 pm
But don't worry! Here's a protip.
Of all the people to give pro tips, not you. Pro tip: leave this community because nobody likes you.
CatGirls420 wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 8:02 pm
ProTip: you can scout, and only build anti air if theres air unit, then, based on the amount, make enough aa guns to protect yourself.
Thanks Sherlock Holmes, you really solved that one.
CatGirls420 wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 8:02 pm
Ok, so you're being careful, to avoid any AA Guns, you spot an opening, and go for it. The enemy either catches you or happens to be placing on down right as you get to his base, annnnnnnnd there goes your 10 yaks again. might kill something if you're lucky.
Pro tip: multitask and create a distraction and then do your air assault. Not just do it and then be annoyed when the enemy reacts accordingly.
CatGirls420 wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 8:02 pm
So okay, new scenario, your 10 yaks are on standby, you scout the enemies base, WOW NO AA, SWEET, GIT REKT, but little do you know, he's about to drop an AA Gun. So you send your Yaks, maybe kill a powerplant, a war factory and damage an MCV, because by the time you kill that Adv. PP, he has place the AA Gun and all of your Yaks almost instantly.
Killing an enemy war factory is a small credit lost if you look at it from a very new beginner or just terrible players perspective. Killing the WF removes a building tab and gives you an asset lead on the enemy for atleast 48 seconds or longer if they're low powered or don't rebuild etc. That's no tanks or artillery either. Come on Catgirls this is basic RA theory 101. Also refer to my previous comment. Create a distraction. That was my 3rd lesson with Kazu 3 weeks into this game. As a boy claiming to be a long time RTS veteran you seem pretty awful at these basic concepts.
CatGirls420 wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 8:02 pm
Ok so, let's say the enemy has no AA, and doesnt build one in time to stop your attack. So all 10 Yaks pull off a successful attack.....but only kill maybe, idk, for example, an MCV, a service depot, a couple power plants. Then you have to resupply ammo back at the field.

Well, now Craig IjustGot Cucked, is going to make a bunch of AA guns, and wait for you to suicide into his base, doing essentially nothing.
How about... don't suicide your 10 yaks into his base? I mean that's the conclusion applying logical thinking.
CatGirls420 wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 8:02 pm
1 aa gun can kill 16,000-20,000 or more credits worth of migs.
What brand of Epsom salts did you inject for this value?
CatGirls420 wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 8:02 pm
Feel free to disagree with me, but at least explain why, in a constructive way. That means don't be an asshole. Please follow the forum and community rules. Saying stuff like "you have no idea what you're doing" or "dude you suck" doesn't help anyone or anything. Subtle insults don't either.
Ahh yes. Constructive ways. You're the expert on constructive criticism. Like that time you said and I quote "theyre lucky I dont find and fucking kill them, fucking worhtless assholes" to everyone on the IRC (if anyone wants the actual sc just pm me :D ) I think everyone has had a gander and laugh at the IRC logs :D


And now after mindless drivel with the amount of intelligence in the rambling akin to a glass of water I present - how he balanced it.

CatGirls420 wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 3:39 am
When they decided to add the flak, which was never in RA, it was the stake that pierced the heart of the game, and them nerfing SAM Sites was the extra push on the stake to drive it in completely and get in there real good.
When you decided to try and balance, idiotic rambling which was never in RA, it was the stake that pierced the heart of everyone that had to put up with your nonsense, and making Griaon quit was the extra push on the stake to drive it completely and get in there real good.
CatGirls420 wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 3:39 am
The way I balanced all of this, was allowing AA Guns to see as far as they can shoot. I'll have to double check, but I reduced the damage of AA Guns by, 25-33%, maybe? I reduced how fast it shoots by a good amount, gave it splash damage, and made the turn rate4-5 times slower, which actually isn't that slow.

Keep in mind, my air units are also buffed, to be more effective on the field and against navy as well.

Through tests with AA Gun and air units with default values, I think I had to reduce the damage by 40-50%, IIRC.

So, with the AA nerf turning out to be great, I buffed the SAM Site dmg and range a bit to be pretty even with the AA Gun. It shoots four rockets, but I split the damage by4, so it's really just aesthetic thing, shooting 4 rockets. Although, it does add some variable to it. 1 to all 4 missiles can either hit or miss.

I increased the health of the AA Gun and SAM Site so it could survive well enough to do significant damage while being attacked by air units, or, anything really.

The Flak truck was tweaked. I took some dmg vs air, and gave it to dmg vs infantry, increased it's range by 0.5-1 cell, and sight range by 2 cells. A slight move speed increase as well, to make it a better scout unit and worthwhile anti infantry for soviets, and supplementary AA.

Destroyers AA Range went up to 12 cells, to compensate for AA where allies needed it, but couldnt get aa there, or couldnt get it there in time.

The missile sub aa was buffed greatly, range to 14 cells, shoots faster, IIRC slight damage increase? To make up for what soviets lacked in terms of naval aa.
Cba dissecting that. It's funner to take the piss out of your theory. Not your changes that will never make release that apparently Soscared copies :D



I hope you find this constructive reply adequately constructive. Representing the community we kindly ask if you leave for good. Please remember it takes only 3 reports on the map centre per map to scourge the centre of your filth ;)

NerevarII
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:58 am

Re: Let's talk about AA Guns

Post by NerevarII » Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:06 pm

Okay lol, so without stooping down to your level:

You need to understand that your request is ridiculous. And even if I wasted my time doing that, like I did before, you would find some BS reason to try and shoot that down as well. I'm not taking your bait. If someone more reputable as a non-troll requests it, then I will happily go a gather some of that evidence.

As for you and wippie, lol, okay well you're both wrong. All I did was point out arguments against this, and my arguments against those. Nowhere do I say anything is set in stone or definitive. I am an extremely open minded person. I figured presenting aforementioned arguments for and against this, would save people time and trouble of going through it again, or at all. But anyone is more than welcome to challenge any of the points made, as stated. All I said was that nobody has really proven otherwise, and that if somebody can prove otherwise, please do.

"No you dont."

Baseless accusation, yes I do, next.

Soviets never had mobile AA, if OpenRA added mobile to soviets, why not Allies as well? Either adding mobile aa to allies, or removing it from soviets, would be a simple quick fix to many problems.

"They can kill 100 if you are the commander of the yaks :\ Where in the barn in Bethlehem did you generate that value, did the lettuce come to life again and bestow that knowledge onto you after injecting some bath salts?"

Yeah, this doesn't even warrant a reply, grow up.

"That's beginner level RA knowledge come on man :D You can use either for both but hinds are the best at clearing infantry because they're stationary and don't burst like yaks. Yaks are snipers because they're fast and can kill multiple things in a burst."

Lol. There's nothing new you could ever teach me, and every time you prove this.

"No it's because Allies don't have a flak truck, there's no issue with the flak truck. "

That's basically the same thing. It ties into the same problem.

" 1 AA gun can kill at least 0 yaks or 100 if you're in charge of the yaks remember. I still have no idea how you got that value. Where you in a private server flying yaks around an AA gun? "

Nice bait.

"someone who knows what they're doing (not you) would put the flaks into groups and catch the air units unaware... surely you must have seen numerous casts of this. I'll link some with time stamps since you obviously need to do your homework."

Lol you're hole just keeps getting deeper. Again, grow up please. There is nothing new that you've shown me thus far, and thing's I've known for a while.

"Flak trucks are faster than hinds. Flak trucks are also a deterrent. Air units will not attack into Flak trucks. Your infantry blob will not get shredded during an attack by hinds. The only way an Allied player can assure this is by bringing an MCV front line and place and AA gun, now if you were a smart player you would think like this. They're the pikes to the cavalry. Their strength is not in routing the hinds. Do the pikes go charging the cavalry?"

Are you going to make a valid point any time soon, or just continuing spewing assumptions/baseless "facts" about me?

"If you are not a smart player you shouldn't use the terms "a smart player will" because you are neither smart nor competent and have no idea about whats going on in the mind of a smart player or his/her strategy."

Thought so. Still nothing useful being said and just insult after insult.

"Never heard this argument... ever. Did you invent this one like how you invented the delusion me and Submarine are paedophiles "

Uh.......bait? Psychiatric illness? Not sure what your issue is anymore. Too many.

"You lost to a silo. A single silo. Whats the smart player explanation for that? The only thing I can think of is that you're terrible and should stick to making fun mod maps or maps like Afrijew than actual serious balance which you have no idea about. Why didn't you scout his lone silo??"

That doesn't even make sense. Stop trying to bait people, and grow up. Seriously, your attempts and efforts are pathetic, don't you have anything better to do? Silly question, I already know you don't.

And Afrijew? You mean the map you helped make? Or the time you ran rampant on the forums here (sleipnir forum name anyway) at school, and had the convenient excuse of blaming somebody else using your computer? You made the spam bot that plagued the last forum recently, didn't you?

So I skimmed over the rest.....yeah, just a bunch of BS and even more insults, no reply to any of that needed, except one thing:

"Pro tip: leave this community because nobody likes you."

Right.....if that we're true, I wouldn't still be around. I left many times, and each time, many people asked me to come back. Because most of the community actually likes me. Most of the community actually see's and values everything I've done for them, and they see and value me. They see I'm not the bad guy you and the small group of people claim that I am. You're small group isn't "everybody" and it sure as hell doesn't speak for "everybody" because, again, if let's say HALF the community at least, didn't like me, I would leave.

I'm not going to let a small group of nobodies/self-proclaimed God's ruin thing's for everyone else. That's not fair to the community. Me leaving because of you and a small number of other people, isn't fair to the community either.

You are nothing to me. You don't matter. The community matters. And I'm a man who loves giving not only what they want, but what they deserve. And since they want me, I'm here to stay. Since they deserve everything I have to offer, I'm here to stay.

NerevarII
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:58 am

Re: Let's talk about AA Guns

Post by NerevarII » Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:19 pm

Woops, forgot to mention, about your cg420 map complaints......lol, if you played version CGv420i and onward, IIRC, then yes you would have those experiences, because I decided to do some experimentation with making nukes stronger and such. IIRC the version you played was the APOCOLYPSE version, which has 50 cell range cruisers and missile subs, a cancerously-strong nuke, and other councerous changes. You're either deliberately or accidentally not connecting dots and acknowledging the differences between my maps, and what each map is. Anyone else can tell the difference.......which leads me to believe you're deliberately just being maliciously childish.

I mean, the word "APOCOLYPSE" is in big capital letters, and the map's message/mission briefing has been updated to explain what is different. The name containing "APCOLYPSE" should alone tell you not to expect anything "normal or balanced".

Also, it's very possible that I borked one or more of my maps that weren't supposed to have crazy changes like that, by accidentally copying the wrong yaml files onto the wrong maps, or simply making typos (as I usually do), or anything else, really.

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