2018 RA Balance

4/22/2018 Balance Update

Discussion about the game and its default mods.
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WhoCares
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Post by WhoCares » Sun May 20, 2018 12:47 pm

Why not just "capture on crush" ? As a matter of fact, a crush means that the vehicule touches the infantry and isn't it the "condition" for a highjacker to capture ?.

That would make highjacker more dangerous for all "heavy targets" that are inf act the one interesting to capture (who would like to highjack a ranger plz ....). that way, they can't block ref but that can give them a 100% chance of capture in that spot because a harvester will get back there and that's for me it is totally in the spirit of the highjacker to ambush an ore truck at his delivery point.

And if that make them too more powerfull, then remove the invisibility. we want them to capture not to be "invisible immobiles morrons".

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netnazgul
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Post by netnazgul » Sun May 20, 2018 5:05 pm

well, tbh hijackers being crushed is neither the only nor the most important problem with it. I'd agree with any improvement on this and even none. Them constantly teleporting to nearby cells on approach is the most painful thing however.

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avalach21
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Post by avalach21 » Sun May 20, 2018 5:37 pm

lol I'm trying to resist the urge but I have to ask... why is the hijacker in the game? It seems to be barely used, it's broken, it's not from the original game, it wasn't like it was even a cool unit in TIberian Sun (and at least that one was a "mutant" not the goofy thief sprite). Is the hijacker a critical unit in the balance structure? Since it is so infrequently used I would say no, but I'm sure there's more experienced players with a better understanding of it's role. Just wondering if there is any consideration for just eliminating it altogether, or if that is simply blasphemy to suggest... :-D

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Happy
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Post by Happy » Sun May 20, 2018 11:05 pm

avalach21 wrote: lol I'm trying to resist the urge but I have to ask... why is the hijacker in the game? It seems to be barely used, it's broken, it's not from the original game, it wasn't like it was even a cool unit in TIberian Sun (and at least that one was a "mutant" not the goofy thief sprite). Is the hijacker a critical unit in the balance structure? Since it is so infrequently used I would say no, but I'm sure there's more experienced players with a better understanding of it's role. Just wondering if there is any consideration for just eliminating it altogether, or if that is simply blasphemy to suggest... :-D
Basically a troll unit. When you want to shove your superioirty in your oppenants face. I dont think anyone would blink if it was removed.
STOP:THINK:DESIGN

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IronScion
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Post by IronScion » Tue May 22, 2018 1:23 am

I'm all for the hijacker, and he's a nice counterpoint to the mechanic for soviets. Yes he's bugged, but it's pretty easy to nab an ore truck if you time the hijacker's approach for when the truck pauses to scoop up ore. Gaining two ore trucks while your opponent loses two is pretty significant.

There was also a 5aces cast (can't remember which, but it was played on Behind The Veil) where hijackers were used effectively for snagging mammoths.
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camundahl
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Re: 2018 RA Balance

Post by camundahl » Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:04 am

Hijacker definitely useful, if you can manage to use it lol

Eagle XI
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Re: 2018 RA Balance

Post by Eagle XI » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:10 am

Dont know if it has stealth, but if not give it cloaking and watch opponent ragequit over losing fresh MCV outta factory gate.

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avalach21
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Re:

Post by avalach21 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:36 pm

IronScion wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 1:23 am
I'm all for the hijacker, and he's a nice counterpoint to the mechanic for soviets. Yes he's bugged, but it's pretty easy to nab an ore truck if you time the hijacker's approach for when the truck pauses to scoop up ore. Gaining two ore trucks while your opponent loses two is pretty significant.

There was also a 5aces cast (can't remember which, but it was played on Behind The Veil) where hijackers were used effectively for snagging mammoths.
Eagle XI wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:10 am
Dont know if it has stealth, but if not give it cloaking and watch opponent ragequit over losing fresh MCV outta factory gate.
No doubt he is useful as is and especially more so if he wasn't bugged.. just wondering what the thought process/justification was for adding him into the official OpenRA roster in the first place.. The Flak truck is cool and based on a unit from RA2 but there was a specific need in the balance structure for it which seems to be why it was added.. Sure the hijacker is a cool concept and it is based on a unit in Tiberian Sun.. I'm just wondering what the purpose of putting a seemingly random but cool unit into the game is in the first place if there isn't a specific balance need for him. If it comes down to it, I'd rather see time spent figuring out how to get dogs to work correctly (a unit that is from the original game and is absolutely necessary for game balance) rather than trying to fix the bugged hijacker that IMO has a questionable basis for even being in the game.

Eagle XI
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Re: 2018 RA Balance

Post by Eagle XI » Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:31 pm

Agree with what you say about the Flak Truck.
I dont really know why, maybe the thought was since allies can steal money with thief, give soviets an different type of 'thief' unit, that would steal vehicles instead. However zorro wasnt even in the last time ive checked.

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avalach21
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Re: 2018 RA Balance

Post by avalach21 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:22 pm

Eagle XI wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:31 pm
Agree with what you say about the Flak Truck.
I dont really know why, maybe the thought was since allies can steal money with thief, give soviets an different type of 'thief' unit, that would steal vehicles instead. However zorro wasnt even in the last time ive checked.
Lol he really does look like zorro now that you mention it. He was always a goofy out of place (and under-used) unit to me, but I always liked how the spy was a "spy" and could tell you the economic status of your opponent where the thief was actually a thief and would steal credits (how this make any sense? I dont know.. lore-wise this is pre internet so its not like he can hack and transfer funds... otherwise he would have to haul all that ore out back to the base to be of any use I would imagine). The whole point of Red Alert is the asymmetric teams.. The allies in this game are the cunning covert sneaky team.. the soviets are raw power/brute force.. so even by that logic, its not like the soviets need a counterpart to the allies sneaky shit.

Sorry to derail the thread any further but I will always be one to ask why a change was made from the original game and ask if it is really necessary. I have absolutely no issue with improving upon/deviating from the original game when necessary and appropriate, but adding in random (broken) units that are not necessary to the balance structure seems to deviate from the overall goal of the OpenRA project.

camundahl
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Re: 2018 RA Balance

Post by camundahl » Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:20 am

It's almost irrelevant to bring up original Red Alert because the online gameplay is trash.

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avalach21
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Re: 2018 RA Balance

Post by avalach21 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:19 pm

camundahl wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:20 am
It's almost irrelevant to bring up original Red Alert because the online gameplay is trash.
wat

Printer
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Re: 2018 RA Balance

Post by Printer » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:37 pm

Would it be possible for Hijackers to capture husks but only for a brief period of time? Perhaps they last 30 seconds* @ 50% and blow up leaving no husk after. Is it code-able?

At present, the Mechanic retrieval of husks is a clear disability on the Soviet side. Many pro-matches show Allies players cancelling out progress, raids, and force fire by:
a. simply undeploying,
b. letting it get killed and,
c. getting the MCV shortly there after.

A recent SoS stream illustrated this with Zxgannon & 5a re-capturing their own mcvs to great effect, while in very next game 5a just lost his mcvs (poor scouting/mis-rally) without recorse because he was Soviet.

Mechanic - $500, 12 seconds build time = 30% MCV, near the front line (and double tech if enemy)
Soviet MCV - $2000, 40 seconds build time = 100% MCV, at your base and still needing to crawl to where it could have been, no chance for double tech

*(Like the frequently used Chrono time out, an MCV could be deployed to over come that...)

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Sleipnir
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Re: 2018 RA Balance

Post by Sleipnir » Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:38 pm

The simpler fix there is to remove husk reviving from the mechanic so that neither side gets it, making it fair.

Printer
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Re: 2018 RA Balance

Post by Printer » Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:42 am

Woah Odin's Steed! If that's what's being discussed forget I said anything. Mechanic husk captures are op, but fun op.

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