2018 RA Balance

4/22/2018 Balance Update

Discussion about the game and its default mods.
eskimo
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Re: 2018 RA Balance

Post by eskimo » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:28 am

I think the engi changes are positive, but have some reservations. I think the mechanic 10% recovery from vehicles is nice if you don't lose the mechanic, as losing it would be a useless mechanic i think. However removing a unit (theif) and adding a new unit buff to allies is sidestepping on your balance intentions possibly, that's if a single mechanic can go round getting free husk money. Which iirc was peoples beef with bounties.

However, i don't personally care for any of that but thought i'd highlight it. Really i just dislike the idea of removing a unit (hijacker), that has proven to offer entertaining games and isn't a game breaking bug.

abcdefg30
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Re: 2018 RA Balance

Post by abcdefg30 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:19 pm

eskimo wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:28 am
However, i don't personally care for any of that but thought i'd highlight it. Really i just dislike the idea of removing a unit (hijacker), that has proven to offer entertaining games and isn't a game breaking bug.
Agreed. :+1:

lawANDorder
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Re: 2018 RA Balance

Post by lawANDorder » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:56 pm

Removing the hijacker now does not ban the unit's assets forever from the game. If this motivates people to work on new concepts (there are already some nice new ideas in this thread) and the necessary code to reintroduce the unit (or fix the broken behaviour), then it's totally worth it IMO.

On a related note I'd like to point out (although it's not my job to do it) that devs and dedicated contributors are working hard for this playtest so it would be awesome if the playerbase rewarded this with participation in the playtest, once it is released. They rely on your feedback here or on github.

abcdefg30
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Re: 2018 RA Balance

Post by abcdefg30 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:00 pm

lawANDorder wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:56 pm
Removing the hijacker now does not ban the unit's assets forever from the game. If this motivates people to work on new concepts (there are already some nice new ideas in this thread) and the necessary code to reintroduce the unit (or fix the broken behaviour), then it's totally worth it IMO.
Sorry, I don't think this is a good idea. Seeing how many ideas and opinions are floating around already (while discussing the removal of the unit), I suspect there will be plenty of excuses to delay or prevent efforts to add the hijacker back.
I agree though that fixing the enter behaviour is needed.

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Sleipnir
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Re: 2018 RA Balance

Post by Sleipnir » Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:11 pm

abcdefg30 wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:00 pm
I agree though that fixing the enter behaviour is needed.
You've read the Enter code, so should understand better than anyone else in this thread exactly why this is never going to happen.

lawANDorder
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Re: 2018 RA Balance

Post by lawANDorder » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:42 pm

Well, https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/issues ... -338258050 allows for some hope...
abcdefg30 wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:00 pm
Sorry, I don't think this is a good idea. Seeing how many ideas and opinions are floating around already (while discussing the removal of the unit), I suspect there will be plenty of excuses to delay or prevent efforts to add the hijacker back.
I agree though that fixing the enter behaviour is needed.
It could be done the other way around: A compromise could be to only touch the hijacker when there is a working proof of concept, so that it could be handled like any other PR. The question then is how important is
Sleipnir wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:33 pm
- Removes a unit that has no compelling reason to exist and hurts the perception of OpenRA as a bug free and well polished game.
and what period of time would be granted for the overhaul of the unit before it gets removed eventually (if that has to happen).

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Sleipnir
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Re: 2018 RA Balance

Post by Sleipnir » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:24 pm

netnazgul wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:50 pm
Wow, that is a nice update, Pchote. Will it make it into the playtest?
At this point that is just a proposal, and there is no guarantee that these changes will ever be made, unless more people start actively pushing for it or something like it.

In any case, the engineer changes require too many code changes to be doable on the timescale of the playtest but there is no technical reason why the mechanic and hijacker changes couldn't be done now.

NerevarII
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Re: 2018 RA Balance

Post by NerevarII » Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:59 pm

An easy solution would be to allow HiJackers to capture husks, as Mechanics can do. Mechanics can repair vehicles and cap husks, then hijackers could steal vehicles and cap husks. The trade off would be fair, since the hijacker is more expose to being killed, as it has to approach an enemy vehicle to capture it.

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Wippie
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Re: 2018 RA Balance

Post by Wippie » Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:54 pm

NerevarII wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:59 pm
An easy solution would be to allow HiJackers to capture husks, as Mechanics can do. Mechanics can repair vehicles and cap husks, then hijackers could steal vehicles and cap husks. The trade off would be fair, since the hijacker is more expose to being killed, as it has to approach an enemy vehicle to capture it.
Gotta keep in mind the stealth ability. Im not a fan okf giving a unit new features but i like the idea of upgrading the unit somehow to work around the entering bug. Perhaps more vision or HP?

camundahl
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Re: 2018 RA Balance

Post by camundahl » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:24 pm

I agree the hijacker able to capture husks would fix (even) things also.

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netnazgul
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Re: 2018 RA Balance

Post by netnazgul » Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:11 am

I like the future "engie for husk captures" change more. Thief/hijacker might find his way back into allied ranks, maybe taking the money-stealing role of spy.

eskimo
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Re: 2018 RA Balance

Post by eskimo » Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:20 pm

I do envisage an IC'd APC with 5 Theifs in being rather funny though

NerevarII
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Re: 2018 RA Balance

Post by NerevarII » Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:17 pm

eskimo wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:20 pm
I do envisage an IC'd APC with 5 Theifs in being rather funny though
Can confirm. Did it. Was hilarious.

.

Wippie: I forgot about the stealth ability on HiJackers. Still, it should be nice if the stealth was removed, whichs adds dynamicism to the matches/battles, as a HiJacker can either steal vehicles or capture husks, whereas a Mechanic can repair vehicles and capture husks. This also allows the player to get a little more creative.

Altering stats like health and/or vision? Nice idea as well, that also can work. I tried a mix of pretty much everything mentioned thus far, and haven't too much usage but they do seem more reliable now. Been months. And still, HiJackers rarely get used haha o.O :(

.

net: I like the engi captures husk idea too. Maybe all 3 units can capture husks, and each one has it's own unique role as well (capture/repair structures, repair vehicles, steal vehicles).

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Luftwaffe
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Re: 2018 RA Balance

Post by Luftwaffe » Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:31 am

I think hijackers should be made more efficient, they seem broken now and just follow the unit forever before capturing it - but should be not given the ability to capture Allies MCV husk.

If Soviets were able to capture Allied tech - you would have people doing so each game (because the reciprocity would exist). Now only one side benefits so it rarely happens and keeps the fun part on. Actually, many teammates won't make an MCV and give it away... but that's another behavioral topic :)

StalinVHitler
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Re: 2018 RA Balance

Post by StalinVHitler » Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:43 am

I shoot plane with many effort and my reward is my men are explode.

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