Release Discussion

Release 20171014

Discussion about the game and its default mods.
Murto the Ray
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Release Discussion

Post by Murto the Ray » Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:24 pm

Download: LINK
Changelog: LINK
News Post: LINK

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This release includes changes from the previous playtests. You can find the previous playtest discussion here.

A new version has been released! Make sure to read back on the changes made (see links at top) and feel free to use this space to discuss them.

Please keep discussions constructive and on topic!
Last edited by Murto the Ray on Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

weeman
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release

Post by weeman » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:14 pm

why cant i turn the shell map music off. for good. like forever.

ANDDDDDd

This defense mode business. i personanalyDislike right now. the people will hopefully warm up to it.
Last edited by weeman on Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Materianer
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Post by Materianer » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:03 pm

What about the chronotanks i can't masschrono them anymore with shift.
Force move in the new taskbar works but alt also doesn't work.

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FRenzy
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Post by FRenzy » Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:59 am

My 2 cents here :

- About the new attack mechanics, I'm liking them so far. I know they are not (yet) very popular, however I feel this is going the right direction.

It feels better when your army is first targeting opponent's army + defences, getting rid of them, then can focus on the base (assault move or attack stance).

It allowed me to get rid more easily of my opponent's basepush. Basepush is still strong, if defences are spammed, but it can be countered now, with some micro and some tactics. To me, it feels way better, and rewarding.

Also, it allows for a new game mechanic, which is capturing undefended bases. I almost got it in 1 game, got unlucky but it could have worked. So I think engies might be used even more now.

Another point, not sure if positive or not, but gren rushes are now more powerful : if a static def wasn't ready, and no rifles in base, a gren rush can deal huge damage, while riflemen can lock a barrack / kennel. Happened in 2 games already.
As a Soviet player, I love it, but it might be a balance issue. But I love it :D Also means you have to be extra careful with gren rushes, so it might add to the early game dynamics, which might be good !

- About the MCV slowdown : not sure if it's negative, at least it means MCV needs extra protection (or sneakiness) from air units. Which means airforce is getting more important, and I've played a few games where airforce was all over the place. Which is good IMO.

- I still have big balance issues, but that's another topic and no point to start a debate here ^^

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MustaphaTR
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Post by MustaphaTR » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:28 am

Materianer wrote: What about the chronotanks i can't masschrono them anymore with shift.
Force move in the new taskbar works but alt also doesn't work.
It works for me, with Alt, not shift. Looks like it is changed.

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IronScion
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Post by IronScion » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:59 am

Ummm I'm pretty sure the alt button is what I've always used to mass-move chronotanks.
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Mo
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Post by Mo » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:38 pm

I always had used alt for mass chrono.

Regarding trying to bring down base pushing, I believe the new stances does this job better than the MCV decreased movement. I think too many variables being changed at once results in a more defensive style gameplay where players are less likely to take risks with MCVs.

Additionally, I'm mixed about the new stances, I like it as an aggressor as I don't have to micro as much, but as a defender, it nerf static defences, the placement of static D behind structures is no longer important other than to avoid enemy static D as buildings won't help defend.

So they only viable way to counter an army is with an army. And defensive armies don't have their advantage as much.

Split opinion so far.

OMnom
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Post by OMnom » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:33 pm

Mo wrote:
So they only viable way to counter an army is with an army. And defensive armies don't have their advantage as much.
To clarify this a bit further, I think what Mo is saying is that with the new attack logic, the defender's advantage has been nerfed, so you can no longer use a smaller army to beat a much larger army by using your base. Previously, you could set up a base + static defenses and a small portion of your army to deter a larger army; now, the only way to get a similar effect is to use artillery or V2s, and this leads to the infamous artillery stalemate.

The reason the defender's advantage is so important is that it gives players the option to divide their main army into smaller armies rather than keeping their entire army in 1 blob.

newwe
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Post by newwe » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:53 am

Unfortunately just played a game that was not that fun, attack move does not seem to be working well.

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FRenzy
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Post by FRenzy » Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:32 am

newwe wrote: Unfortunately just played a game that was not that fun, attack move does not seem to be working well.
Was it not working against buildings ? That's the new behaviour, on "Defend" stance.
To attack buildings, you either need to use "Assault move" (Ctrl A), or set units on "Attack anything".

Or was the problem something else ?

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newwe
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Post by newwe » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:09 am

FRenzy wrote:
newwe wrote: Unfortunately just played a game that was not that fun, attack move does not seem to be working well.
Was it not working against buildings ? That's the new behaviour, on "Defend" stance.
To attack buildings, you either need to use "Assault move" (Ctrl A), or set units on "Attack anything".

Or was the problem something else ?
That was probably it. Kind of annoying to see a bunch of your units just sitting next to an enemy's buildings doing nothing, or walking past tons of buildings into the middle of an enemy's base.

I'll try out assault move, thanks.

OMnom
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Post by OMnom » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:56 am

newwe wrote:
FRenzy wrote:
newwe wrote: Unfortunately just played a game that was not that fun, attack move does not seem to be working well.
Was it not working against buildings ? That's the new behaviour, on "Defend" stance.
To attack buildings, you either need to use "Assault move" (Ctrl A), or set units on "Attack anything".

Or was the problem something else ?
That was probably it. Kind of annoying to see a bunch of your units just sitting next to an enemy's buildings doing nothing, or walking past tons of buildings into the middle of an enemy's base.

I'll try out assault move, thanks.
If it's any consolation, there are several modders trying to balance/enhance RA stances right now so that you don't have to have that particular behavior you just mentioned.

newwe
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Post by newwe » Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:30 am

OMnom wrote:
newwe wrote:
FRenzy wrote:
newwe wrote: Unfortunately just played a game that was not that fun, attack move does not seem to be working well.
Was it not working against buildings ? That's the new behaviour, on "Defend" stance.
To attack buildings, you either need to use "Assault move" (Ctrl A), or set units on "Attack anything".

Or was the problem something else ?
That was probably it. Kind of annoying to see a bunch of your units just sitting next to an enemy's buildings doing nothing, or walking past tons of buildings into the middle of an enemy's base.

I'll try out assault move, thanks.
If it's any consolation, there are several modders trying to balance/enhance RA stances right now so that you don't have to have that particular behavior you just mentioned.
That's good to hear, only played 1 more game since but I really don't like it and don't see the logic for the change, if anything the CRTL-A should be a units only attack and a-move should stay the same imo.

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3.Lucian
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Post by 3.Lucian » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:00 pm

i generally am still not satisfied with the default stance.

I was playing a 4v4 and someone on the other team chronoed an mcv into one of my teammates bases somewhere in the late game, the mcv deployed and barracks and the usual mess of buildings were placed in step.

we killed the mcv, focused down thedefences and then the infantry coming out of the barracks, and then took out what we thought was the last barracks. unfortunately with the already colourful mess of buildings, one of the enemy barracks was totally missed by everyone on our team.

guess what happened?

I look back at the base after microing a large engagment on the other side of the map - theres now a deathball sitting in our base.

Now Im not saying that we shouldnt have noticed the extra barracks, but its counter intuitive to "assault move" through your own base, when you think you have cleared everything, just to be sure you have. its just not intuitive - what is intuitive is that your assets shoot at enemy assets, without having to fuck around with stances every time a barracks pops out another temporary infantry man.
Last edited by 3.Lucian on Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

OMnom
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Post by OMnom » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:01 am

There are two things in the works: one is to allow players to set the default stance coming out of your production queue. This is mostly done and needs a couple touch ups. The second is to redefine the AttackAnything stance to mimic the previous release. This can be done through yaml, and I've already started on modifying these values.

People will adapt to this change eventually..the devs aren't going to change the default stance anytime soon. A prominent member of the community already made a huge fuss over this and it didn't do us any good. You'll just have to deal with in the meantime before the next release introduces some new features that will make the stance changes better.

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