Balancing medic

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lucassss
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Balancing medic

Post by lucassss » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:00 pm

I feel like medic is giving too much of an advantage to allies in infantry blob fights, especially at the beginning of the game, before artilleries are available. Here is my proposal for balance:

- Medic heal will only work on a unit that was not hurt in the last 10 seconds.
- In order to possibly compensate, medic heal range will be increased.

Your opinion?

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Smitty
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Post by Smitty » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:04 pm

Medic is getting a 20 HP reduction this time around. To me the problem was always their tanking power so this is a good step. We'll see how things go.
Last edited by Smitty on Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Do not trust the balance tzars (Smitty, Orb). They are making the changes either for the wrong reasons, for no reason at all, or just because they can and it makes them feel good." - Alex Jones

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Sleipnir
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Post by Sleipnir » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:33 pm

Implementing a heal cooldown on individual units would require new game code, which is not likely to happen. Changing the medic to heal one unit at a time, instead of all units in the vicinity of the target, would be a much simpler way to get a similar effect.

SirCake
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Post by SirCake » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:56 pm

IT HAS AOE HEAL?????? OMFG!! SWITCHIG TO ALLIES RIGH NOW ........................ ;)
(not even attack plane HMGs have aoe, why has a doctors purse aoe? Obviously the simplest fix would be to rename the yak as "Sniper Plane")

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Blackened
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Post by Blackened » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:21 pm

Yaks/hinds have 1 cell spread damage. medic has like 1.5 cell heal range though.

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AoAGeneral1
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Post by AoAGeneral1 » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:42 am

(Repost from github #14076)

This has been an issue for a long time. The reduction on medic HP has helped a bit in this regard but its good to note that medics heal infantry at full health everytime. If they healed at either 60% of their HP instead this would help to alleviate some of the damage soaking problems mentioned here. (Same method done in RA95)

camundahl
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Post by camundahl » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:25 pm

i've never seen medics themselves win a game at a "pro" level.

The engineer stealing husks is pretty useful though.

eskimo
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Post by eskimo » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:02 pm

Game of the season had a medic spam win on patches. It was rather funny but cool.

SirCake
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Post by SirCake » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:17 pm

Yaks/hinds have 1 cell spread damage. medic has like 1.5 cell heal range though.
Whatayatakinabout? You call killing 1 inf and dealing 15% damage to the guy standing right next to him splash damage? Ahahahaha.. I call that fake. It's a sniper plane.
Maybe we should even ask the devs to add the spy-snipe sound to it, so its properly implemented.

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Sleipnir
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Post by Sleipnir » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:32 pm

We wanted to fix the yak as part of the targeting overhauls in the new release, but it was shot down by SoScared on behalf of the competitive community.
SoScared (OpenRA/OpenRA PR #13522) wrote:I've tried to keep an open mind but I'm not sure the Yak change is worth pandering towards the original game in this case. The repurposing is blind and I don't see a relevant problem with #2642 #2730. The RA mod meta has developed heavily around the current Yak and I'm not sure if it's wise to bring this aboard the official playtest if we want players to dive into the HitShape/UnitStance seriously.

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3.Lucian
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Post by 3.Lucian » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:41 pm

well thank god the voice of reason can still be heard, echoing through the hallways.

SirCake
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Post by SirCake » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:10 pm

Concerning the voice of reason:
In my oppinion the current (pro)meta is not worth keeping. It is too predictabe and stagnant. Basically there is one winning strategy and you dont even need to scout if you execute your thing well enough.
This has many reasons, one is the ridiculously fast scaling of economy, slow production of vehicles, pop-up defenses and weak navy and airforces are some of the top of my head.
The playtest timidly adresses some of those, but it won't change the overall meta at all.

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Smitty
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Post by Smitty » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:26 pm

SirCake wrote: Concerning the voice of reason:
In my oppinion the current (pro)meta is not worth keeping. It is too predictabe and stagnant. Basically there is one winning strategy and you dont even need to scout if you execute your thing well enough.
Just curious, what do you think that one strategy is? I see several strategies that have success, including diametrically opposite ones like the Omnom base spam and the tech rush.
"Do not trust the balance tzars (Smitty, Orb). They are making the changes either for the wrong reasons, for no reason at all, or just because they can and it makes them feel good." - Alex Jones

SirCake
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Post by SirCake » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:57 pm

The build is: pp rax ref ref pp wf sd mcv pp ref rax rax rax pp ref dome.
Basically this, variations are just shifting around when something is built by one or two slots.
This leads to allways multi-mcv, allways infspam and defense spam into trench war.

You cant omit the second ref or the warfactory or multiple rax or sd, because if you do, you'll lose to overwhelming numbers.
This applies of course only to top level players, minions and below is relatively fine.

What I dont see at all in pro games is navy, spies, flamers, chinooks, chronotanks, gap genrators, migs, jammers, dogs, hijackers. Thats about 25% of all units! These are "obsolete choices" because they are not worth building in any situation.

I can only afford to build those if I know beforehand that I probably would win a standard game anyway or my opponent is going whacky style as well...

My dream scenario would be if you could follow any choice tree and use any units you want resulting in obvious advantages and drawbacks those choices result into.

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Smitty
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Post by Smitty » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:38 pm

SirCake wrote: What I dont see at all in pro games is navy, spies, flamers, chinooks, chronotanks, gap genrators, migs, jammers, dogs, hijackers. Thats about 25% of all units! These are "obsolete choices" because they are not worth building in any situation.

I can only afford to build those if I know beforehand that I probably would win a standard game anyway or my opponent is going whacky style as well...

My dream scenario would be if you could follow any choice tree and use any units you want resulting in obvious advantages and drawbacks those choices result into.
We're in agreement there. I think a goal of all playtesters including SoScared and myself has been to give underused units the tools they need to be successful in competitive play. There's no grand conspiracy to keep designing balance with only the competitive meta in mind.

I won't be buffing spies though. I'd get crucified by a lot of people on these forums if I tried that.
"Do not trust the balance tzars (Smitty, Orb). They are making the changes either for the wrong reasons, for no reason at all, or just because they can and it makes them feel good." - Alex Jones

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