Power-outage only when infiltrating advanced powerplants

JOo · Post by **JOo** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:24 am

https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/issues/13588

The "Power-Outage" that a spy can cause, when he is entering a powerplant is quite powerful ... in order to make this situation a bit more avoidable it should be limited on "advanced powerplants".

Players could put those adv.powerplants in certain areas (to keep an eye on it easier) and/or use cheap fences to keep any foreign bodies out from entering their powerplants.

This spy-move is just too easy since theres is powerplants everywhere ... and it gets harder to avoid on bigger maps.

I mean, since you are supposed to spread buildings anyway ... i would consider this the better deal for spy - power-outages.

FRenzy · Post by **FRenzy** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:57 am

Interesting suggestion

Other possible ideas :
- shut down only the infiltrated PP (too weak)
- shut down a certain amount of energy (lets say : -300 or -400)
- cut down energy in half
- reduce the cooldown
- ???

Materianer · Post by **Materianer** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:04 am

"Other possible ideas : "
-make a short timer for a small pp and a longer one for apwr

(The current cooldown is a bit too long imo)

Clockwork · Post by **Clockwork** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:06 pm

Interesting idea. The only time Ild ever use spies to shut down power would be if im going to delete a blob of arties in a turtled position or to get a snipe on a tech structure. I however haven't felt they are OP I mean sure the power down is annoying but its the players fault for not being attentive. Im always zipping around my bases checking for any surprises, its the same deal with a gren or flamer rush but instead of sniping buildings its giving a short power down.

JOo · Post by **JOo** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:38 pm

but its the players fault for not being attentive.

sure, i didnt question the attention of players ... however i think that the spy-power-off feature wasnt thought ready ... when it got implemented

its far to easy to accomplish due to the fact that every players needs a shitload of powerplants to spread around.

this depends on the map-layout too but on big open maps its a hazzle for players to keep track on every base-expansion for just something that looks like an "E1"

i personally have no problem to detect spies ... the biggest problems is to inform your team-mates in time that there is a spy about to enter his structure ... as you can imagine, for newbies this often "blows their mind".

it takes no great effort for spies to accomplish a shutdown and the mass on powerplants that everyone needs (especially when trying to equilibrate a powerplant-raid beforehand) makes it a walk in the park

JOo · Post by **JOo** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:49 pm

FRenzy wrote: ↑Interesting suggestion

Other possible ideas :
- shut down only the infiltrated PP (too weak)
- shut down a certain amount of energy (lets say : -300 or -400)
- cut down energy in half
- reduce the cooldown
- ???

once you are under a power-outage (and the powerplants are black) ... engineers can enter these powerplants and fix that problem immediately ?

so when youre having a engineer ready in your base, ready near a powerplant (which is mostly a costly risk) ... you would benefit ?

and it would be a 500 - 500 trade ... thats the cost for a spy and an engi (except for the british one of course)

this would give the spys an excellent reason to use their silent--pp before entering a powerplant

FRenzy · Post by **FRenzy** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 4:37 pm

JOo wrote: ↑ this would give the spys an excellent reason to use their silent--pp before entering a powerplant

Now I have James Bond's theme running in my head ! lol

Materianer · Post by **Materianer** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 5:10 pm

JOo wrote: ↑ once you are under a power-outage (and the powerplants are black) ... engineers can enter these powerplants and fix that problem immediately ?

so when youre having a engineer ready in your base, ready near a powerplant (which is mostly a costly risk) ... you would benefit ?

and it would be a 500 - 500 trade ... thats the cost for a spy and an engi (except for the british one of course)

this would give the spys an excellent reason to use their silent--pp before entering a powerplant

This sounds like a nice idea to me because the spys are really op and that way you have an option to counter those
A heli rush on power and tech structures while the power is down is a too easy win move.

I rarely use spys because of such awesomeness.

Also of course the cash a spy steals should be limited maybe 5k or so but this is an diffrent issue.

zinc · Post by **zinc** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:17 pm

I don't really agree with the OP idea, but I would be open to a reduction in the time of the power-down.

And/or, maybe there could be a limit before you could do it again? So you couldn't just immediately hit someone with the same tactic, but maybe have to wait 1 or 2 minutes.

You also have to make sure counters are available. So dogs are working well. And your own spies will shoot them. I think that happens now? I have suggested before maybe you could put a spy in a pill box for auto detection of enemy spies.

noobmapmaker · Post by **noobmapmaker** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:52 pm

I don't see alot of spies, though. Are they really THAT op? Personally I hope their powers will not be reduced to much, but perhaps the power time out is to long.

Some thoughts:
- small pp = 50% or 66% of advanced pp power outage
- advanced pp slightly less long time out
- engineer cancelling the effect, yes! Very nice, gives engineer an extra late game role

In general: people should be focused and prepared for spies. Put some dogs in your base, watch out for odd infantry, dont float $10k..
If anything I would give some late game units detection: tanya, tech centers, chrono, mammoth.. such rare units. Perhaps spies could use a small price increase.

SirCake · Post by **SirCake** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:29 pm

I find Joo's initial Idea the best. Its also simple to implement and introduces another gameplay element (advanced power makes you vulnerable to spy, which can be prevented by fence, which can be crushed by tanks or destroyed by rifles and so on and on...).
*thumbsup*

On top of that the engi idea is cool as well

I'm not a fan of boring number-changes (less here, more there ..zzZ). The problems (covert ops into pp is too easy) would be still the same.

avalach21 · Post by **avalach21** » Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:07 pm

Engi counter to shutdown power plant is great idea

JOo · Post by **JOo** » Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:15 pm

avalach21 wrote: ↑Engi counter to shutdown power plant is great idea

yeah ... pchote likes the idea too so im gonna shut down #13588 and open one with the engineer

it makes sense and it would help get more use out of the engineer

zinc · Post by **zinc** » Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:24 pm

Would the engi have to enter the infiltrated power station, or just any power station?

I'm thinking it could be a little tricky as the engi can already enter power stations to restore health.

zinc · Post by **zinc** » Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:28 pm

I like the idea if it's having the engi enter the infiltrated power station. But then if you have multiple infiltrations of different power plants, do you need lots of engis to counter it?

Power-outage only when infiltrating advanced powerplants

Power-outage only when infiltrating advanced powerplants ?

Power-outage only when infiltrating advanced powerplants