Adding upgrade mechanics to RA

Technology Centre finally has a use

Discussion about the game and its default mods.
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kyrylo
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Adding upgrade mechanics to RA

Post by kyrylo » Wed May 10, 2017 4:18 pm

What if it was possible to build the Technology Centre:
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Once built, this building would allow upgrading units/defence structures/whatnot.

For example, there's an endless debate whether MiG's should have AA or not. What if it was an upgrade that you could purchase?

Tanks don't have enough armour? Well, you could purchase an armour upgrade!

Fake structures don't provide build radius? Buy an upgrade!

SAM sites have poor radius? Upgrade!

This way each faction can be even more unique, with their own upgrades.

Anything you wish can be implemented. Please don't focus on my examples because they're only examples. I want to discuss this feature as a RA game mechanic and how it could potentially improve the gameplay.

P.S. I think it should be possible to implement it as a modded map because d2k already has upgrades, so the engine supports this kind of mechanic.
Last edited by kyrylo on Wed May 10, 2017 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

noobmapmaker
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Post by noobmapmaker » Wed May 10, 2017 4:58 pm

Yeah I'd love this, but it diverges to much from the original in my opinion.

But I'd love it! Excess money? Pump it into research. And you can go for all kinds of things.. level 3 rifle infantry with triple health. Add weaponry, superawesome last upgrade bonus... Anything.

Hard to balance, but it would broaden the tree of strategic possibilities immensely.

*Should it be insta-buy or timed research?
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avalach21
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Post by avalach21 » Wed May 10, 2017 5:55 pm

noobmapmaker wrote: Yeah I'd love this, but it diverges to much from the original in my opinion.

But I'd love it! Excess money? Pump it into research. And you can go for all kinds of things.. level 3 rifle infantry with triple health. Add weaponry, superawesome last upgrade bonus... Anything.

Hard to balance, but it would broaden the tree of strategic possibilities immensely.

*Should it be insta-buy or timed research?
I agree this sounds like it could be fun, but ultimately it will deviate too far from the original source to be included in the official mod. Also would be a gigantic can of worms to balance.

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ZxGanon
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Post by ZxGanon » Wed May 10, 2017 6:20 pm

Upgrades are very easy to implement.
Crystallized Doom has that mechanic.

Hell we even have an upgrade that exchanges current weapons (like Cannons from Tanks) with Lazers.

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Materianer
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Post by Materianer » Wed May 10, 2017 7:02 pm

Nice i like this idea, make it provided with shuffle random upgrade please :D

OMnom
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Post by OMnom » Wed May 10, 2017 7:10 pm

I was contemplating testing this out in my playest, but i scrapped it because i thought it wouldn't get past the scrutiny. Specifically, i was going to place certain upgrades in the defense tab that would be buildable after certain tech levels.

SirCake
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Post by SirCake » Wed May 10, 2017 8:26 pm

It's not so easy as you think. The engine has to support the upgrade (whatever it does).

Generally you can do it with any "Trait" that has the RequiresCondition Trait. Meaning, before the condition is fullfilled the upg is deactivated, then it is activated. Also RequiresPrerequisite is similar, but that usualy checks wheter a specific unit is on the map or not instead of a condition.
(You give traits to actors, which are the units on the map)

Not all traits implement this, at all. For example I had to go at great lenghts to implement a simple silo upgrade in three outosts that gives bonus money (like derrick), because the engine was not supporting a Condition on that trait. I was using map rules and lua scripts for this.

So before you throw out an idea go check on the traits if you find anything that has RequiresCondition or anything related that has RequiresCondition or if you have an idea how to do a workaround (possibly using lua). If you can't, your idea can't be done. Easy as that.

From the top of my mind those have RequiresCondition:
All weapons
Stealth
CloakDetect
all powers (via prerequisite)

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Graion Dilach
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Post by Graion Dilach » Wed May 10, 2017 9:28 pm

You can also do what MustaphaTR is doing - picking up C# just enough to learn how to shift traits to be conditional and then send in patches for exactly that.

Also, even your logic is wrong. For example Attack* traits have the RequiresCondition, so you'd assume they could be upgradable, but having two Attack* traits will crash the game on WithSpriteTurret (the trait all turreted units in RA use) and so on.
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SirCake
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Post by SirCake » Thu May 11, 2017 9:18 am

Well, that thing with the turreted is an exception to the general rule, right? (Which is Condition or Prerequisites) And it does only further limit the options you have to do upgrades.

Sure, anyone can learn C#, but noone can include custom C# in any map without the devs consent, waaaay in the future with the next releaase. I don't think thats what people wan't to hear if they want to do a quick balance check with their new cool ideas.
Mustapha on the other hand is aiming for a full conversion mod (here).

You can do a lot with only traits in the map rules .yaml allready. And that is what most map makers understand and want.

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