Technology Centers and the Bio Lab

[RadicalEdward2]

I'm late to the party so this has probably been discussed multiple times but, I'll just post about it anyway.

Right now the Technology Center serves no purpose.
If it was given a feature, it could present the team that captures it with a unit or structure that's exclusive to another faction or a specific country of either faction (regardless of the captors allegiance).

Could be a spy, grenadier, mammoth, phase tank, airfield, iron curtain, flamethrower, chronosphere (or tank), mechanic, medic, Tesla trooper, kennel, heavy tank, etc.

The only reason I bring this up is because in Yuri's Revenge there was the Tech Secret Lab which served that exact purpose.



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Bio Labs

To follow the theme of the missions in the beginning of Red Alert as well as Aftermath/Retaliation, if captured, the Biological Labs could provide access to Sarin Nerve Gas either in the form of Chem Trucks or Chemical Bombing Runs.




Whereas the Demo Truck and the Airstrikes could damage anything within their vicinity, the Chem Trucks and/or Chemical Bombing Runs could harm and kill ONLY infantry within its area of influence.
It would then leave the green gas affect used for the nerve gas in the campaign (recolor of the flare sprite).

The truck could detonate like the Demo Truck and have a similar blast radius.

In terms of sprite work, I guess the Demo Truck's atomic decal could be recolored green instead of yellow.

[Sire]

Right now I believe Bio Labs in Red Alert give access to Giant Ants and Zombies. However, I would not be opposed to also adding " Sarin Gas Demo Truck" and the "Sarin Gas Bombers". Being super effective against Infantry would put some more reliance on vehicles in RA as OpenRA is more about infantry warfare with tank support.

Then, in Tiberian Dawn, Bio Labs innately give access to Visceroid. I also think I saw a map in the default map pool that also allows the player to build the Dinosaur units.

* * * * *

As for the Tech Center for Red Alert, it would be fun to see it give out a random Tech item like in Red Alert 2, as you have stated.

Specifically, I can see...
- British Spy, Phase Tank, Mobile Gap Generator, Fake Structures (will need to include Soviet Fakes as well), Chonoshift, Chronotank
- Tesla Trooper, Tesla Tank, Demo Truck, Parabombs, Iron Curtain
- Sniper (for fun)

However, if it is given a function, existing maps that use the Tech Center as a decoration will need to be revised. A minor concern, but one present nonetheless.

Now, as for Tiberian Dawn, maybe a random vehicle of the opposing faction? So, Nod may be able to get Mammoth Tanks while GDI can get Stealth Tanks.

Personally I would love to see Renegade X's interpretation of also including Tiberian Sun vehicles into a Tiberian Dawn setting, but that involves making new units with all the art and coding and stuff.

[zinc]

I kind of like the chemical attack(s) idea.

[RadicalEdward2]

Right now I believe Bio Labs in Red Alert give access to Giant Ants and Zombies. However, I would not be opposed to also adding " Sarin Gas Demo Truck" and the "Sarin Gas Bombers". Being super effective against Infantry would put some more reliance on vehicles in RA as OpenRA is more about infantry warfare with tank support.

Then, in Tiberian Dawn, Bio Labs innately give access to Visceroid. I also think I saw a map in the default map pool that also allows the player to build the Dinosaur units.

* * * * *

As for the Tech Center for Red Alert, it would be fun to see it give out a random Tech item like in Red Alert 2, as you have stated.

Specifically, I can see...
- British Spy, Phase Tank, Mobile Gap Generator, Fake Structures (will need to include Soviet Fakes as well), Chonoshift, Chronotank
- Tesla Trooper, Tesla Tank, Demo Truck, Parabombs, Iron Curtain
- Sniper (for fun)

However, if it is given a function, existing maps that use the Tech Center as a decoration will need to be revised. A minor concern, but one present nonetheless.

Now, as for Tiberian Dawn, maybe a random vehicle of the opposing faction? So, Nod may be able to get Mammoth Tanks while GDI can get Stealth Tanks.

Personally I would love to see Renegade X's interpretation of also including Tiberian Sun vehicles into a Tiberian Dawn setting, but that involves making new units with all the art and coding and stuff.

Huh...zombies seem kind of out of place. Same goes for the ants. I know "It CAmE FrOm WeEeestwoOoOd oooOoOoo~ spoooOooky~ !"
I still have the folder with the promo ant wallpaper and desktop theme on my laptop (cause I use the interface sounds for my desktop theme).
But, I never was crazy about those ants or the dinosaurs. It just came off as out of place but, at the same time, Jurassic Park came out when Dawn did and "Mars Attacks!" came out the same year as Red Alert 1 so throwing in cheesy B Movie horror monsters was a fun little gag but, it was better off on its own; not as an ongoing feature.

If they're dead set on having an entrepreneur mad scientist lab that wants to capitalize on the market for BOTH giant insects AND Nazi Soviet zombies then, maybe at the very least make two versions of the Biological Lab:

One for the Sarin and another just for the B-Movie stuff.



Or better yet, use some assets for some of the fan-made castle stuff to make a spoopy castle for the zombies and ants and keep the Bio Lab just for the chemical warfare.

I think I was one of the only people playing the game back in the day that said, "They get tanks with two barrels, lightning tanks, AND poison gas?! Why can't I use poison gas?!"

Opting to make the campy gag units available as part of the norm in a Red Alert/C&C game is just weird because it'll go against the whole "too much of a good thing" motif and the zombies and ants will lose their novelty value.

That's just my thought on the matter though.

And for you thoughts on the Research Lab:

I wouldn't say the Tech Lab placement would need to be fixed in existing maps. Most of the time, people place hazards near them in anticipation of them someday serving a purpose.
In fact, almost every map that features the Tech Lab has barbed wire and barrels around it or even entire concrete wall perimeters.


The Renegade X style of adding new tech would be cool. Maybe instead of adding Tiberian Sun tech it could add Tiberian Dawn tech to save on resources by reusing existing ones.

While the one additional unit would be completely random, it could add some interesting tech.

- If a faction owns an airfield, they could get the Warthogs (the jets used in the airstrikes).
- If a faction owns a helipad, they could get either the Apache or the Orca.
- They could ever get the Advanced Comm Center to grant access to Ions but, since it's being used against 1940s buildings, it would be a 1HK against whatever is directly under the crosshair (cursor).

I don't think the Temple would be necessary though. Maybe Dawn vehicles with slightly more damage than all standard vehicles would be okay.
Ex: GDI Medium Tank could do as much damage as a Heavy Tank and slightly higher damage resistance than the RA version.

I won't go too in-depth since this is all essentially wishful thinking.

But, yeah, the possibilities would be endless.

[PizzaAtomica]

I love the idea for the technology center, I once proposed something similar during a SoScared stream.

Right now each subfaction has access to one special vehicle:
Phase Tank - Chrono Tank - Mobile Gap Generator - Tesla Tank - Demo Truck

I would like to see the technology center give you random access to one of these units, but specifically one that doesn't belong to the faction you allready play as (This happened way to often to me in YR, me capturing the Secret Tech Lab and furiously searching through the tech tree screaming "WHY DID NOTHING HAPPEN WRRAAAGH!!")

When you capture the Technology Center, the special unit will show up in your vehicle tab, but it's icon should be grey (unbuildable) untill you build your own tech center. After all, you don't want to give people access to demo trucks 1 minute into the game.

The Bio Lab idea I also like, but I also don't mind if it stays the way it is. I like ants

[MustaphaTR]

in Tiberian Dawn, Bio Labs innately give access to Visceroid. I also think I saw a map in the default map pool that also allows the player to build the Dinosaur units.

That's wrong. Bio lab in TD gives Tiberium immunity to infantry.

[RadicalEdward2]

in Tiberian Dawn, Bio Labs innately give access to Visceroid. I also think I saw a map in the default map pool that also allows the player to build the Dinosaur units.

That's wrong. Bio lab in TD gives Tiberium immunity to infantry.

It does both things but, there's no Tiberium in Red Alert.

[Sire]

I love the idea for the technology center, I once proposed something similar during a SoScared stream.

Right now each subfaction has access to one special vehicle:
Phase Tank - Chrono Tank - Mobile Gap Generator - Tesla Tank - Demo Truck

I would like to see the technology center give you random access to one of these units, but specifically one that doesn't belong to the faction you allready play as (This happened way to often to me in YR, me capturing the Secret Tech Lab and furiously searching through the tech tree screaming "WHY DID NOTHING HAPPEN WRRAAAGH!!")

When you capture the Technology Center, the special unit will show up in your vehicle tab, but it's icon should be grey (unbuildable) untill you build your own tech center. After all, you don't want to give people access to demo trucks 1 minute into the game.

The Bio Lab idea I also like, but I also don't mind if it stays the way it is. I like ants

I like this solution for the Tech Center. It is far simpler, is streamlined, and is easy to understand for a new player. Being able to "filter out the current faction" would also be a massive help.

* * * * *

Now for the Bio Lab, while I personally see the Zombies as a novelty, I do like the Giant Ants. I loved the Ant Campaign in the original and love the fact we can use them (if just the basic ant) in OpenRA. However, like I previously stated, I am not opposed to having the Bio Lab also function as a "Sarin Gas" supply.

A part of what makes the C&C series great from the Westwood days is the humor they toss in there. Giant Ants in Red Alert, Hollywood Heroes in Red Alert 2, and Dinos in the original Command and Conquer. Not everything needs to be taken seriously all the time, despite the first Red Alert and Command and Conquer having darker stories compared to their following games (although the C&C series did not delve much into the humor as Red Alert did, save for C&C Renegade.)

[RadicalEdward2]

Red Alert 3 was definitely a joke on it's own though

[zinc]

I'm pretty sure sarin gas was part of the storyline in red alert, but was it ever actually turned into a weapon in one of the missions?

[zinc]

Poison a river was the one time it was used?

[Murto the Ray]

Its nice to have a few buildings in the game that look like they could do something but don't. It gives mappers who can't make models something to use.

[anjew]

Its nice to have a few buildings in the game that look like they could do something but don't. It gives mappers who can't make models something to use.

It also gives modders an exploitable model. I like what Insert did, he made the tech center into an observation post that gives fog of war vision.

[AMHOL]

Its nice to have a few buildings in the game that look like they could do something but don't. It gives mappers who can't make models something to use.

It also gives modders an exploitable model. I like what Insert did, he made the tech center into an observation post that gives fog of war vision.

I remember someone made a mod map on TD where chainlink barriers sold for stupid amouts of cash and cost the same to build, that was a WTF game.

[RadicalEdward2]

Its nice to have a few buildings in the game that look like they could do something but don't. It gives mappers who can't make models something to use.

It also gives modders an exploitable model. I like what Insert did, he made the tech center into an observation post that gives fog of war vision.

That's an interesting idea. It sounds like it makes the Research Lab function more like a light version of the Spy Satellite Uplink from Red Alert 2 (light because I'm guessing it only removes the fog and not completely reveal the map).
However, I feel like that function plays too much on it's resemblance to three small Radar Domes.

It would be cool but, it sounds too similar to the Allied GPS Satellite's functionality when fog is turned on.